Tuesday, July 18, 2006

Talking Sense..

.. or trying to when my whole being is a broil of intense and often contradictory emotions, and when nothing around seems to make any sense at all.

Neighbors of Israel, caring friends and sworn enemies, peacemakers, warlords, unwary bystanders, some of whom have found the passage to my blog and email, I ask you to please read through this and understand the facts as they are, not as they are being reprocessed and rehashed every minute by each to their own fancy.

Hizbollah, under the leadership of Nasrallah, should have been and was eventually going to be disarmed. The main political figures have been meeting towards that goal for the past few months. True, they haven't reached a definitive way to accomplish that, but the intent and the effort were both there. And for your information, Hizbollah, regardless of its ill feelings towards Israel, has the backing of one million shiites, not because of their ideological extremism, but because of the social and economical welfare they have provided to people who have been trapped under your occupation forces for many years, and people who had always been underdogs of the lebanese diaspora. In other words, we have a powerful armed political and ideological party that has the support of one third of the lebanese population. One whole third. Talk about presence and leverage. Any attempt of the remainder two thirds that don't necessarily support HA or subscribe to its agenda to forcefully disarm it or abolish it from the political scene would have broken out into a civil war. And I am pretty sure you are aware of our sentiments towards internal conflicts, having just stepped out of one devastating one a decade plus ago.

So the chance we had at achieving our peaceful unitarian goals was through political action, regardless of how long it was going to take.

In the meantime, HA maintained its agenda, much more moderately than in the past, because the south was liberated and any justification of hostile acts towards Israel were hard to come by, unless they came in reaction to hostility on Israel's part.

The only two cards left in HA's hand were the shebaa farms, which are a clear diversion of pure strategic importance, and lebanese prisoners in israeli jails, which is a genuine issue that we cannot dismiss under any circumstance. The only difference though, was that the government would normally resort to diplomatic means to solve that issue, while HA resorted, as it usually does, to military action. Military action which was effective at a time when Israel was the invader and HA were the resistance, an excuse that was no longer valid to many if not most lebanese at the present times.

So HA abducts 2 Israeli soldiers in a military operation aimed at freeing some of our own prisoners from your jails. And the response was? the news and pictures speak for themselves. Lebanon is thrown back fifty years, all infrastructure is gone, civilians are being killed by the hundreds, and displaced by the hundreds of thousands, scarcity of food, water, and medication will soon turn into lack thereof, in other words, the magnitude of this social, economical, and humanitarian catastrophe is cataclysmic. In other words, and I cannot contain myself anymore, you fucking destroyed my country and killed my people and god knows how much more destruction, death and suffering will ensue, just because you did NOT want to exchange prisoners! You did all this for two soldiers! Now let me tell you, I am a physician and human life is precious to me more than you think, but THIS?? do you really think, in your heart of hearts, that what you did is SANE???

There are so many people like me who would give anything for peace, and those were the majority in Lebanon, and they were working, albeit slowly, towards disarming HA. And the first screw up HA commits, you blindly and indiscriminately blow everything to pieces? Trust me on this one folks, this is not making you a lot of friends on this side of the border. Don't you think that one HA is enough? Do you insist on every last one of us being your sworn eternal enemy?

Come on you guys. This isn't how peace seekers act. You could have warned us, you could have pressured us, you could have released a couple of our prisoners just like you retreated from our land 6 years ago. But no. You chose to bombard the life out of every last one of us, friend or foe, because your leadership meant to, it wanted to bring us to our knees. It's all but a power trip my friends and neighbors of Israel. You know you won't be able to take out a militia by doing what you did, but you do it anyway. You also knew we were trying to peacefully integrate HA and disarm it, and you didn't care. You could have been reasonable, but you didn't want to. And now, I have feelings that I never thought I would have, or thought myself capable of having, thanks to your peaceful brotherly intervention.

I do not want to be an enemy of peace. I want to embrace it and I want us all to live like brothers. Honest to god I do from the very depth of my being. Please don't let me lose that. Stop your attacks, and let's all try and work together on a decent plan for a better future in this cursed little piece of misery called the middle east.

46 Comments:

Blogger Delirious said...

You did all this for two soldiers!

The irony, my friend, is that Hizbollah did all this for... guess how many prisoners??
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FOUR (some reports say three) Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails.

7:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hizbollah, under the leadership of Nasrallah, should have been and was eventually going to be disarmed. The main political figures have been meeting towards that goal for the past few months. True, they haven't reached a definitive way to accomplish that, but the intent and the effort were both there.
------------
Why is it that except for committing terrorism, the Middle East is always all-talk-no-action? Eventually. It's always tomorrow, or later.

In the meantime, HA maintained its agenda, much more moderately than in the past
-------------
They were going to moderately destroy Israel? Then why do they have these thousands of rockets and missles? Moderate until they get nukes?

So HA abducts 2 Israeli soldiers in a military operation aimed at freeing some of our own prisoners from your jails. And the response was?
------------
The response was/is to end this kind of bullshit once and for all. Israel has prisoners because they're *terrorists* -- like Israel gives a squat about some harmless, kafiyeh-wearing cedar farmer.

do you really think, in your heart of hearts, that what you did is SANE???
-------------
The whole Middle East is insane. Three of the world's most important religions emanate from there and the whole region is beset with killing. Kill kill kill. You'd think it was a commandment.

they were working, albeit slowly, towards disarming HA.
-------------
You know, when your wife is having a baby in the car, you step on it. Israel doesn't have the luxury of working slowly. Slowly means death, because that's what Hezbollah, and Hamas, and Syria, and Iran want. And a whole lot of Lebanese too.

This isn't how peace seekers act.
-----------
Oh yes it is. When was the last time Germany, which was utterly destroyed in WW2, started a war? The American south was destroyed during our Civil War and has never rebelled since. Egypt was humiliated beyond belief in 1973 and entered into a formal and real peace treaty with Israel. The Korean War didn't end and look at that mess. Yasser Arafat didn't get what he knew he couldn't, but he got a good deal, and he went nuts with suicide bombers.

Israel will utterly destroy Hezbollah and probably Syria. A lot of Lebanon will be wrecked in the process. But you will rebuild and this time it will be as a free, prosperous, and peaceful nation, as will be Israel. Sorry if you don't like the truth, but bitter medicine is better than candy.

(nice Jewish Boy, from other blogs)

7:35 PM  
Blogger LebExile said...

This is not about one or two soldiers, or 2 or 3 prisioners, this is about stopping once and for all Hizbollahs madness. If Israel were to swap the soldiers for some prisioners, (note, they want the lebanese and 100's of Palestinian prisioners released). This would make Hizbollah look like heros who are bravely fighting for Arabs rights.

Then what about the 4 or 5 soldiers that got killed in the kidnap operation??? There is a price to pay for that also!!!

Israel could hand over those prisioners, and this would make Hizbollah even more stronger than it already is. How would you plan on disarming them then???

On the other hand, they go in and bomb the hell out of Lebanon, and then, the lebanese see Hizbollah for what they really are, a scourage of the earth that needs to be eliminated.

I once supported Hizbollah when in '96 the Israeli occupation unleashed Grapes of Wrath on Lebanon. Back then, what HA did was justified, and it was a resistance, now, it is a sad joke, that is tearing the country apart.

Its not going to be "Disarming HA will cause a civil war" anymore, it is now: "If you dont disarm HA, there is definately going to be a civil war!!!"

I watch the news, and they have reporters interviewing people on the street, they pretty much say "it is worth all this to hit Israel".

If so, then, let them enjoy having their kids get killed, their homes destroyed, and their economy ruined...

What more can I say ... Hizbollah is a cancer.

Further, I cant say that I have much sympathy for what the people are suffering ... if they dont seem to have any either...

7:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with you fouad. when all this started I got so mad at hizbullah, but seeing all these massacres happen at home, it brings out an emotion that I have never had before, really scary, emotions I never thought I was capable of having. It seems that our lives are so cheap to the israelis. The whole world does not care about us. I don't know what I can call it. hate, disgust, anger, sadness, something that includes all of the above feelings, and it is really painful.

7:39 PM  
Blogger jij said...

Fouad, I know we don't see eye to eye on this, and I my aim is not to make you change your mind, but just listen to me. You are still somehow surprised at the Israeli aggression. You can't make sense of it. Ya Fouad this is not about the two soldiers. They had the plan already and were waiting for an excuse. You'll tell me that Hezbollah provided the excuse. I tell you that the excuse was going to come sooner or later, from Hezbollah or from someone else. You cannot blame part of the Lebanese people (and as you acknowledge, a very significant part) in believing in what they believe in. Fine, you disagree with them, you want Hezbollah to disarm. I disagree with you, but I acknowledge that you are as Lebanese as I am and that we have to talk about it. So we start to talk about it. The state of Israel does not give a shit about safeguarding Lebanon. They want to get rid of the resistance. How many Lebanese they kill in the process is irrelevant to them. We are irrelevant. If they think they'll destroy the resistance by destroying the country, then they'll destroy the country. You disagree with Hezbollah, but they are your brothers. When I say Hezbollah, you have to understand we're talking about hundreds of thousands of supporters and sympathizers. You must know that if they fall, we all fall with them. Your only choice is bite your lip and to stand with them. The other side has absolutely no interest in your fate. Another thing. Even if you take Hezbollah's weapons, you won't solve anything. Believe me when I tell that other groups of resistance will emerge, because many many people believe that Israel is the enemy, and for a reason. I know you don't agree, but it will happen. And then one day one of these groups is going to kidnap an Israeli soldier and Israel will unleash its savagery on us again, not caring what you and me think and what we’re going to accomplish together. We have to live together and die together, there is no other choice. There is no alternative, come and stand with us ;)

8:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it is very naive to think that Hezbollah would have left Israel alone afterwards if Israel had agreed to a prisoner swap.

It is far more likely that Hezbollah would have become more agressive and pursue additional attacks against Israel. After all it is committed to Israel's distruction.

The Lebanese people have to choose between supporting Hezbollah and suffering the consequences or taking steps to limit their aggression against Israel. In both cases violence will occur and innocents will die. There is no other alternative in the long run.

8:36 PM  
Anonymous Gil, Israel said...

Hizballah was not going to be dismanteled any time soon, surely if Israel had caved to his demands after abducting the soldiers.

Hizballah's aim, same as Iran's, is the destruction of Israel.

Israel is out of Lebanon for more than 6 years and Hizballah kept on hitting Israel through this time with no provocation by Israel.

Israel had to stop it. Foud what did you expect that Hizballah's attack would not provoke an Israeli milittary attack? And yes, Israel is much stronger than Hizballah so yes Lebanon is being hit hard (and that's without unleashing all the force of the IDF).

If Lebanon hada backbone and would have gone to a peace deal with Israel I'm sure you could have gotten your prisoners and the Shab'a farm (even though it was Syrian not Lebanese land). Peaceful ways are welcomed by peaceul actiones on the other side. Whe you attack murder and kidnap you can expect nothing else but war.

I'm sorry for you Fouad and for Lebanon. You have a messy country and tons of problems but you can not solve them on our expance.

Get rid of Hizballah and then we shall talk peace with you.

8:48 PM  
Anonymous Gil, Israel said...

To jij

Ofcourse Israel doesn't care about Lebanon, It cares about itself and its citizants!

If you would like to continue and attack Israel you will get retaliation. If you choose peace you will get peace.

I think you are stupid to choose war, but than agian not surprised.

Learn to defend your interests, Lebanon ones. Don't be a dummy in the hands of others like Iran and Syria.

You are so naive. Syria and Iran are affraid to fight Israel so they use Lebanon and Lebanon gets fucked for that.

Wake up!

8:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gil, If you know that syria and iran are behind this, then why does lebanon have to be fucked.. I guess it is for the same reason. Lebanon is an easy target for israel, eventhough their real enemy is syria and iran. Lebanon is a country which just got rid of an occupation and has no militarycapability so it is the easisest target for israel. Look at things from both sides. Israel, iran and syria are using us to fight their war, add on top of that the no respect for lebanese lives, and you get a massacre of the lebanese people.

9:11 PM  
Anonymous Gil, Israel said...

anonymous -
Look at the presure Israel is under for attacking Hizbullah who attacked it.

Think what will happen if Israel attacks Syria\Iran - The world would not let it happen. Syria and Iran are clever, Lebanon being the fool here and paying for it.

Israel does not attack iran syira because there are no clear proves for that. So Israel does what it can to defend itself. And since it cant attack Syria and Iran it attacks the ones that fire and kill its people - Hizballah.

And as for Lebanon, I'm sorry but they need to take care of themselves. And I belive that if they kicked the Syrians out they can do the same to Hizballah!

9:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for the truth gil. The world will not allow israel to attack anyone but lebanon. because they don't give a "shit" (as bush puts it) about us. when israel unleashes its wrath on us they know we can't do anything, but if they touch iran they can wipe israel with nuclear weapons. It is the balance of strength, and I guess we are the weakest, so we have to pay.
Thank you civilized world for letting this happen.

www.fromisraeltolebanon.org

9:29 PM  
Anonymous Gil, Israel said...

anonymous - you are right. The international comunity is a friend of no one. The big powers care about themselves and no one else.

Israel is restricted on its action and who it can attack and for that it is not able to fully protect itself. The sad outcome is that Lebanon gets fucked.

Conclusion - each country should take care of its self. Don't know how, but lebanon needs to solve its issues with Hizballah.

You want peace - disarm them.
You want war - let them do what they want.

9:34 PM  
Blogger Solomon2 said...

Hizbollah, under the leadership of Nasrallah, should have been and was eventually going to be disarmed. The main political figures have been meeting towards that goal for the past few months.

Nasrallah was just pretending. He told you three days ago he had been planning the kidnapping for five months, didn't he? And he planned for armed retaliation from Israel - a retaliation that would justify Hezbollah keeping its arms forever. He just didn't anticipate a response like this.

Then again, maybe he or his backers did. Welcome to my nightmare!

9:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How naive can one be? All you need to do is listen to the agenda and teachings of Hizbullah, Hamas, the Iranian president and Syria to know that this war is not about land or about abducted soldiers, this is about Israel's right to exist in the region. Unfortunately the Arab world is not willing to accept this right or even attempt to understand Israel's narrative whereas in Israel there are very active moderate groups that always listen to the arab narrative. It is time for the arab world to stop whining, and start fighting their corrupted regimes and refrom the so disturbing elements in Islam that call for Jihad and killing of infidels. Nothing will change until the muslem world stop fantacizing of world Islamic hegemony.

9:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

will you guys stop calling it whining. If you consider feeling angry and frustrated that your country's children are being burned beyond recognition whining, then we have the full right to whine. You can for a change stop whining about us whining. your kids are sending us messages "with love" on their rockets, while our kids die trying to escape your wrath. what kind of balance is that.

9:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

fouad, say something.

9:47 PM  
Blogger Fouad said...

Say something? there's nothing left to say, anonymous. I feel like spitting out everything I said in my "khalas" post. Hizbollah will not disarm under pressure, and no one on the inside is capable or willing to disarm it. Israel knows that, and it punishes us still. Fine. Save for targetted civilian bombing, there's not much left for the israelis to do, except take on Hezbollah on the ground. And I believe they will. The dice are cast, pal, and God only knows how this nightmare will play out in the end.

10:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First of all to all the stupid israelis saying we were not doing anything or they did not have the luxury of waiting or all talk no action, I remind them that because of the lebanese just talking hizballah had accepter over 6 years ago to stop operations against civlians and only target military.

Don't beleive me? Go to your own news and count the number of Israeli civilians killed by Hizbollah between 2000 and 2006, now go look up the numbers of Israelis killed in the last 7 days.
I'll save you the trouble zero before this week 13 this week. You really care about your own citizens.

Great fucking plan guys.

You are not supposed to care about the civilians you kill in lebanon, if the terrorists don't care about the civilians they kill on your side, why should you be any better.

We should quit whining , hehehe yea, our whining is bothering you right?
Remember last time you bombed beirut and invaded in 1982 ?
The intellectuals whined, and Iran armed the poor people whose home were destroyed and created Hizbollah. Hizbollah did no EVEN EXIST before your first raids.
Yea the bloggers get angree and whine but you know what the extremists look up the people who have no more homes, no more family, nothing they care about, give them weapons and send them back to kill you. God knws what party will be created this time.

Great fucking plan.

You are tired with Irans terorism, while they are getting richer by the minute as oil prices skyrocket due to your attacks.

Great fucking plan.

You want to kill the terrorists? They were the only one prepared for this, sitting safe now in their bunkers shelling you watching you shell the lebanese who didn't wish harm for you yet thinking how many they'll recruit when this is over in a few weeks.

Great fucking plan.

Luckily it worked so well for you in 1982 the outcome was so great the creation of the Hizbollah Party was such a great success story for you, you just had to try the same again and see what the nucases will respond with this time.

I hope my whining did not bother you

10:23 PM  
Anonymous Poul said...

the thing is, nobody, even you deep inside, believes that "Hizbollah was eventually going to be disarmed" and "HA maintained its agenda much more moderately than in the past". the facts contradict this, no matter what your emotions tell you. and your "sentiments towards internal conflicts" do not justify your willingness to let hizballah to try to slaughter israeli civilians, which is was doing all the years after israel left lebanon. oh yeah, and shebaa farms are syrian, not lebanese.

all you had to do is to sign peace with israel, call in help of nato, france, saudis etc. to disarm hizballah, and become a real responsible country. israel would gladly release lebanese war criminals it holds if lebanon promised to punish them according to international law. i didn't see *any* lebanese calling for *any* of these natural and logical actions.

and yes, as much as strong are your sentiments against civil war, are strong israeli sentiments about its children. if somebody kidnapped two of my children and was holding them in his house, you can be damn sure i'd go in and kill everybody in this house who resists to release my children, and if i destroy the house in the process, too bad. this IS SANE. this is the only sane behavior in my book. and if you are a man, you would do the same. this is exactly what israelis are doing. and please, remember - they warned and pressured you for quite a while, absorbing missile barrages from your territory and doing nothing. the problem is, you didn't take their warnings seriously. next time, you will.

letting yourself being used as a human shield by insane fanatics who try to eliminate the most powerful country in the middle east - now that's INSANE. seriously.

if you want us all to be brothers, stop letting *your brothers* to poison the well from which we all drink. if you don't, others will.

10:30 PM  
Anonymous Poul said...

oh, and anonymous,

>We should quit whining , hehehe yea, our whining is bothering you right?
>Remember last time you bombed beirut and invaded in 1982 ?

do *you* remember it? compare terror before 1982 and after. by any count it worked, not absolutely, but to really great extent. think about it - your actions are telling israel is that the only way to get quiet border is to bomb you into oblivion. smart strategy?

10:34 PM  
Blogger Achillea said...

True, they haven't reached a definitive way to accomplish that, but the intent and the effort were both there.

I don't doubt that you really, really wanted to. Honestly, I don't. But you admit that even after months of discussion nobody had figured out a way to actually do it. And then you admit that one third of your population supports Hizballah. So, talking sense, it really doesn't look like you were going to get it to happen anytime in the foreseeable future, if at all.

So the chance we had at achieving our peaceful unitarian goals was through political action, regardless of how long it was going to take.

And I wish you'd had that time. Honesly, I do. But you ignore the fact that that time was being paid for in Israeli lives and suffering. You expected them to just meekly endure attacks and murders and abductions while you discussed how to get your own house in order? Anonymous at 7:39 says that your lives seem to be cheap to the Israelis. Their reaction isn't surprising, since you seem to count Israeli lives pretty cheaply.

lebanese prisoners in israeli jails, which is a genuine issue that we cannot dismiss under any circumstance.

Like Samir Kuntar? Do you really want to make such a cause celebre of a man who beat a little girl to death?

do you really think, in your heart of hearts, that what you did is SANE?

Do you really think, in your heart of hearts, that it's sane to keep rewarding kidnappers with what they want? Or do you think that's just guaranteed to get you more kidnappings? Do you really think, in your heart of hearts, that it's sane to have the warning of Israel's reaction to the abduction of Gilad Shalit and then go do the exact same thing? Is it sane to still be holding them prisoner?

Trust me on this one folks, this is not making you a lot of friends on this side of the border.

Trust me on this one, folks. Letting a terrorist group stage in your country hasn't made a you a lot of friends on the other side of the border.

the first screw up HA commits, you blindly and indiscriminately blow everything to pieces?

First screw up?!? FIRST?!?

You could have warned us, you could have pressured us, you could have released a couple of our prisoners just like you retreated from our land 6 years ago.

Warnings? You got warnings. The reaction to Gilad Shalit's kidnapping should have been a big hint, then the flyers advising people to clear out of the south for anybody particularly slow on the uptake. And pressure? You just spent the whole third paragraph of your post explaining exactly how unable you are to influence Hezballah. What would pressuring you accomplish? You'd 'discuss' a little faster? And then you call for more gestures of good faith from the Israelis? They withdrew from southern Lebanon. How did you respond? You let Hezballah camp on the border and launch repeated attacks across it. They exchanged many prisoners. What did they get? More kidnappings. Their gestures of good faith are inevitably answered with blows. How about you try a gesture of good faith? There are two citizens of your southern neighbor -- the one you claim to be seeking peace with -- abducted in an invasion of that country and being held prisoner somewhere in yours. If they're still alive, they're probably hurt and undoubtedly terrified. Find them and see them safely home. Unless you think holding onto two soldiers is worth all of this.

You know you won't be able to take out a militia by doing what you did, but you do it anyway.

Actually, militias are more often than not taken out by being crushed militarily. It can't usually be done with air power alone, but the IDF has just called up two or three divisions, so I suspect they have something a bit more hands-on in mind.

You also knew we were trying to peacefully integrate HA and disarm it, and you didn't care.

You knew they were spending the time while you talked (and talked and talked) planning and launching attacks on Israel, and you didn't care.

You could have been reasonable, but you didn't want to.

When 'reasonable' translates to 'sit on your hands and suffer your citizens to be abducted and murdered,' well, yeah, I can see them eschewing that.

I do not want to be an enemy of peace.

I don't think you do. I don't think the Israelis do, either. I think Hezballah very much does, because war is their raison d'etre. But I also think, if you truly want peace, you're going to have to acknowledge that at present Israel has very little reason to believe that you both want it and can provide it.

10:56 PM  
Blogger nour said...

i agree with you Fouad.
I know as well that many Lebanese do.

we can say these words on Israeli news websites, where it will reach more Israelis, where it can have a better influence on the educated and peace seekers among the them..

I go out to all of us who can still communicate...start commenting and giving feedback on Israeli websites, in a manner not to stirr things up [as if it can get worse than that..], but create supporters for our cause among the Israeli people.

Peace be with us.

12:09 AM  
Blogger Mirvat said...

four, one is them is kuntar.
it's all lies..lies...
from all sides.
we need to wake up

1:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paul,

> the thing is, nobody, even you deep inside, believes that
>"Hizbollah was eventually going to be disarmed"
> and "HA maintained its agenda much more moderately than in the past".
> the facts contradict this, no matter what your emotions tell you

Paul BULLSHIT.
I call your bluff.

Can you provide a link on any new site about the number of ISRAELI CIVILIAND KILLED BY HIZBOLLAH ATTACKS BETWEEN 2000 - 2006 AND THE NUMBER OF ISRAELI CIVILIANS KILLED IN 2006.

You said facts provide links.
Any link.

2:27 AM  
Anonymous Regards from Jerusalem, Israel said...

Anonymous said...
It seems that our lives are so cheap to the israelis.


No but the lives of our soldiers and citizens are so precious to us.

I'll give you a hint who really thinks your lives are so cheap:

"In contrast, our people and our nation's willingness to sacrifice their blood, souls, children, fathers, and families for the sake of the nation's honor, life, and happiness has always been one of our nation's strengths."

That was your Hassan Nasrallah ranting away on Lebanon's Al Manar TV station on May 23, leass than 2 months ago.

You are his canon fodder. You are sufferring for his Islamic megalomania.

My sympathies.

2:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a starting point Wikipedia page lists these hizballah operations attacking israel form lebanon, all death mentionned are military.

November 7, 2004: Firing unmanned drove over israel. Further research o nnews sicetes indicates no civilian killed.
October 2000: Abduction of israeli SOLDIERS. Prisonner swap, no civilian casualties.
2001: Kidnapping of 1 reserve army colonel prisonner swap no israeli civilian killed.
After Israel's assassination of Hamas spiritual leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, Hezbollah attacked the IDF along the Blue Line, no civilian killed.
November 21, 2005: Attack on the border, gunmen form Hizbollah killed no civilian killed.
December 27, 2005: attacks form Hizbllah on Israel no civilian killed. (On some new sites I found mention of three civilians wounded)

You can use this as starting point to refute our claims.

Then this week!
Kidnapping operation carried out, military casualties, Hizbollah holds 2 of your childeren ... you have a crazy response instead of negotiating, Hizballah retaliates 12 ISRAELY CIVILIAN CHILDEREN DIE and more MILITARY CHILDREN DIE (I think 4 more in the warship)

Great fucking plan to protect your children. Whose life is so DAMN precious to you or are the lives fof the kidnapped soldiers even more prescious than the rest od the israelis killed as a result?

No Paul, it is not only in our head, the agreement with Hizbollah to spare civilian killing in israel was in effect the ground and TO OUR SURPRIZE THEY HELD THEIR END and refrained form killing civilians while we negotiated on the final removal of their arms.
Until you decided that's not how you want it to be because obviously the restrain of Hizbollah was only in our heads.
Maybe the Israeli civilians who dies as a result are also only in our heads.

Great Fucking plan to save the lives of your children.

Wanna bet the next 6 years starting right now will have more israeli civilian casualties than the past 6 years before your bloody crazy response started?
Be it by Hizbollah or whatever new crazy party will be spawned because of what you just did?

3:04 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is the info according to Haaretz (The data was in hebrew, so i'll translate the summary)
In 2000-2006 1 child and 14 soldiers died. HA attacked 18 times including a failed attempt to kidnap a soldier in Rajar village in 11/2005 (11 were injured in that time).
So, every 4 months HA attacks Israel. So most of the attacks were on military targets, so what? How long should Israel allow HA to perform that? Lebanon does not want to confront HA and wanted to disarm HA via negotiations. How long will that take? 1 year? 5 years? And all that time Israel is expected to accept 3 attacks per year by HA whenever they feel like it?

When Israel withdrew in 2000, Lebanon refused to deploy its soldiers along the border. It was HA that build many outposts there and deployed its men there. HA is supported by 1/3 of the Lebanese. They are part of the parliament and of the government.

Personally I think that Israel acts too harshly and we need to find a way to cripple HA without alienating the whole Lebanese people. There is no joy in seeing Beirut on fire. But Lebanon is resposnible to what happens in their territory. If the Lebanese government is incapable of controlling their border they should seek help.

3:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous thank you for the data!!!!!
> How long will that take? 1 year? 5 years?
Suppose it took 5 years!!!!!!
It is safe to assume 1, maybe two maybe three civilians would have died in the process, ten soldiers ... twenty ???? While it would take us 1 years maybe 5 years to disarm them!!!!

Because of your action that number of Israely died in ONE WEEK!!!!!
One weeeekkkkkkkkkk, it is not over yet

Forget the 200 Lebanese civilians, to hell with us, we are not worth crap to you!
Waiting 1 year even 5 years would have meant LESS CHILDREN OF ISRAEL WOULD DIE!
Those fucking "lives of our soldiers and citizens are so precious to us" would have lived to see another week.

You got impatient and decided those israelis needed to die this week ? they couldn't wait anymore?!

Can't you even do any math ?

3:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh and Hizbollah were getting WEAKER not stronger because Syria left lebanon,
Oh and hizbollah were making more and more CONCESSIONS (going from we want to destry israel to we want to free prisonners and liberate stupid shebaa farms)
Oh an hizbullah were finding problems recruiting new people to hate Israel because the memory of israeli agreesions were forgotten by most rest of the lebanese replaced by the syrian bombing memories of 2005.

but I am sure things will still be going in the same direction when thousands of people have their relatives killed by your bombs and hundreds of thousands have their homes destroyed by your bombs!
Now they will all rize together to ask for PEACE with you!

3:53 AM  
Blogger rami said...

damn it...

so is this a cyber version of the current war?

what's going on here is a war of words, no better than that of lebanese and israeli war lords.

some sense people, some solutions please

3:55 AM  
Anonymous salam said...

i understand and feel your misery cause its mine too my friend, i know i have no right to say i know what you going through but believe me i pray with every new sun that all hatred and stupidity came to end in our middle east, we are wasting our days and energy just to distinguish our self from others maybe to feed our twisted ego, I’m Israeli and most of the time I like living here there is a lot of great people here that they really want to live in peace…

Peace and love
??? ???? ????

4:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No Rami,
I will swear i will shout I will curse but I am not and I will not kill any Israeli no matter how much he is ignorant and stupid and defending the killing of innocents.

Solution?
What if I gave you the perfect solution!
Is anyone listening?
Does anyone give a fuck?

you think someone in charge, tried finding a solution then decided the best course of action to kill 20 Israelis and 200 Lebanese and we are not even half through it.

You think anyone but the frustrated are reading this blog, looking for a solution to the conflict they have not thought of.

We were WORKING on a solution then some crazy people kidnapped the soldiers and more crazy people escalated to a full fledged war and now everyone wants revenge and there is a million time more hatred and violence. ANd now you want to convince us the current state is better than what we was before. For you or for us.

Now it is all gone at least let us vent our frustration without patronizing us and rationalizing the killing for us.

Bomb us, kill us, we can't stop you.
But at least don't insult our intelligence. That why I am "whining" at least, maybe, just in case I can stop you from doing that. From pretending your actions saved precious lives of your loved ones or is arithmetics the new weapon of mass destruction?

4:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paul,
>do *you* remember it? compare terror before 1982 and after.

Yes before that you had the sunni palestinians as sworn enemies prepared to kill themselves and kill you.
Afterwards you had both sunni Palestinians and shiaa Lebanese who created Hezbollah specifically because of 1982.

You honestly think you will have LESS than 1 civilian killed in the next 5 years by hizbollah or whatever group will emerge replacing it? due to your actions? Please tell me you are joking!

Paul, if you are right then I tell you we deserved it we were ignorant lazy and got what we deserved. But if things get worse than they were before this week, ie if Hizbolla kills TWO more civilians 2010 then things would have gotten worse no for the civilians? your would have acted like a bunch of morons geopardizing more Israeli civilians lives that necessary?
No ? You tell me?!

At least you are enjoying bombing the crap out of us, that should make you feel better for the unnecessary loss of israeli lives.

7:05 AM  
Blogger the perpetual refugee said...

Fouad, your words are wise.

There is too much hate, blindness, arrogance, whatever you want to call it.

My advice is keep up your posts.

It's the least we can do to send out our message.

7:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You try to distinguish between Israeli civilians and soldiers. We have no such distiction here. 1 civilan and 14 soldiers is 15 Israelis. Add to that the 8 that were killed during the latest HA attack we have 23 dead Isralis in 6 years. Since Lebanon didn't do anything practical to stop it, Israel had to act.
Sadly we act with too much force, we should have been satified with destroying all HA outposts in south Lebanon and their HQ.

7:28 AM  
Blogger Jean said...

For all the israelis who are surfing on the lebanese blogs, I invite you to go visit:

http://jeansouc.blogspot.com/2006/07/how-lebanese-are-seen-by-israelis.htm

and leave a comment. I would appreciate it.

2:12 PM  
Blogger Jean said...

sorry..
correct link:

http://jeansouc.blogspot.com/2006/07/how-lebanese-are-seen-by-israelis.html

2:51 PM  
Blogger halla said...

this blaming of either side is nothing but shame! will not get us anywhere..as we blame each other..families on either side are dying because of this blame..their loved ones, counrty and way of life is being destroyed..and we sit here and blame one another..yes u may say we are right, they are wrong..whatever...the main point is that under no circumstance is the killing of innocent civilians on either side justified..that civilian could be my mother, my brother, my sister, my father..
i am praying with whats left of my hope that future comments be about cease-fire about stopping this animal warfare and the barbaric destruction taking place because of hizbollah and Israeli agendas..this is not the way to go about diplomacy..hatred is not a means to an end..only and ONLY by accepting mistakes done on either side can an understanding be reached and pride be raised down..is this not humanly possible?? please tell me it is possible or am i living in my own reality bubble?

4:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am an Israeli. I am deeply troubled by the fact that Lebanese children are suffering. I think that it is not in the best interest of Israel to cripple Lebanon, or to weaken its economy. Israel has everything to gain from a strong, modern and plentyful Lebanon. I understand this all too well, and I think that the majority of Israelis understand this too. Nevertheless, the vast majority of Israelis support this millitary campaign, and I would like to try to explain this. If you are a Lebanese reader, I don't thik I will be able to convince you, but at least make an effort to understand my perspective. Put yourself in my shoes for 2 minutes, then go back to your own shoes and think whatever you like.

There is a much larger picture here. This is not only about two captured soldiers. This is not only about what Hizbollah did or didn't do. This is about Israel's struggle to survive. When I speak to Europeans or Americans they have a very hard time understanding this, but Israelis live in constant fear of being wiped out. Most countries take for granted the fact that they will still exist tomorrow, whereas Israeli does not have this luxury. In 1967, and again in 1973, Israel was attacked by the armies of Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq. Additional soldiers were also sent from other Arab countries. If it weren't for the fact that we hold weapons of mass destruction, these Arab countries would have probably attacked us more. Today, the leaders of Iran openly say that Israel should be erased from the map. The democratically elected leaders of the Palestinian authority openly say they want to throw every last Israeli into the sea. Europe is clearly pro-Arab. The US is pro-Israel, but who's to say what will happen 20 years from now. Israel is a small isolated country whose existance is not guaranteed. For the past 60 years, we are in a corner with our backs against the wall. We have only one option if we are to survive: we have to make it perfectly clear to the Arab world that its not a good idea to mess with us. Overreacting is a the whole point. Being aggressive is a survival strategy for us. We do not act this way out of racism, arrogance or hatred. Its what we must do to ensure our own survival.

Believe me, I feel for your children. But today I'm forced to choose between my children and yours. Not because Hizbullah is a direct threat to my children, but because if we show the slightest sign of weakness, the Arab countries will once again start planning our destruction. I can sleep at night because I know that I have no alternative.

4:56 PM  
Blogger halla said...

why do we have to choose whos children are to be spared? it should be both our children both our countries..not in our name should these attacks take place..that is how we can achieve a cease-fire..as a lebanese i am telling u in all honesty i am not with hizbollah for they are fighting in my name and on my land for a cause only they support! take this somewhere else..propagating their agenda in the name of my God..my God does not declare war on children and on innocent lives..does your God do that? is that what has become of humanity..please dont tell me this is our last resort. What Hizbollah did was wrong but it does not justify the IDF going in and retaliating the way they did..there are other means and other methods..i accept that the Lebanese government failed to act years ago against Hizbollah's methods..reason is beyond me..but as a Lebanese citizen i am telling you that i do not accept what both sides are doing..the Lebanese people do not want this nor have they asked for anyone to speak on their behalf if any Lebanese do accept Hizbollahs misson..then they are not true Lebanese..we have had enough of death and destruction..how many times must we rebuild our country. I understand your point of view but i also must repeat that under no circumstance will i choose my children over yours.

5:31 PM  
Anonymous OneOfIsrael said...

Hello Fouad,
You’re headline was Talking sense and you wrote very sensibly so I’ll try to answer as sensibly as I can. First of all my name is Uri and I’m an Israeli citizen.
I agree with almost everything you wrote but I think you’re being a bit unfair, Yes, we were on Lebanon ground and it took us almost 20 years to understand that it’s a mistake, and it took a lot of effort for the leaders of peace to convince the leader of wars to retreat from Lebanon and try to make peace. And since then we pressured you, Hezbollah kept arming itself and kept storing weapons and we warned, Hezbollah committed acts of terror and we rebuked but did not attack. But how long can the northern settlements of Israel live in fear and go into shelters because of Hezbollah? How long should we give you to disarm Hezbollah when that time is measured in Israeli lives? The UN stated that Hezbollah should be disarmed – did anyone do anything?
I know that the majority on both sides doesn’t want war, but Hezbollah do, and until someone disarm it – Israel and Lebanon will not have peace. Ironically - If Lebanon would have disarmed Hezbollah Israel would have no way to attack, the global reaction would demolish our actions.
Considering Hezbollah history and legacy if a prisoner’s deal will be made it will only give them incentive to kidnap more soldiers that is way no one negotiates with terrorists.
As this is getting very long (and you have 60 other comments to read) I’ll stop now, please replay to my email OneOfIsrael@gmail.com if you want,
To finish, I just want to say that my family lives up north and my mother and father are in bomb shelter right now and I hope they’ll be all right and in the same breath I hope you, Fouad, will also be alright and we sane people might yet win thru this.

Uri.

6:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kuntar should be released in small pieces, say 1 cc per week.

6:14 PM  
Blogger Mirvat said...

ADD THIS PLEASE!!! ASAP

http://mirvat.blogspot.com/2006/07/united-for-peace-and-justice-please.html

6:47 PM  
Blogger WeShouldTalk said...

blogs are amazing because we can friggin talk to people on the other side of the world! Or at least in Canada! Woohoo!

http://arabsandisraeliscantalktogether.blogspot.com/

lets see how this goes.

3:42 AM  
Blogger Solomon2 said...

We were WORKING on a solution then some crazy people kidnapped the soldiers

Lame. Elements in your government - Hizbollah - say they had planned the kidnapping for five months. Obviously they didn't plan on giving up their weapons before they carried out a kidnapping, and even more obviously Hizbollah, would, if successful, use its success to justify retaining them.

9:12 AM  
Blogger LindaSoG said...

Fouad, you make no sense.

Do you realize why Hezbollah started this war? They did if for Samir Kuntar. Who is Samir Kuntar?

"In 1979, Samir Kuntar led a raid that targeted civilians in Nahariya. His group entered the apartment of a young couple, Danny and Smadar Haran. They took Danny and his 4-year-old daughter, Einat, hostage and retreated to the beach. Trapped there, first, according to witnesses, they killed Danny. The murder of her father would be the last scene Einat would see. For then the raiders killed the little girl — by bashing her head against a rock. Back at their apartment, Danny's wife, Smadar, had escaped execution by hiding in the crawlspace above a bedroom with their other daughter, two-year-old Yael. Afraid the child would reveal their hiding place, she had covered Yael's mouth with her hand. When she took her hand away, the mother realized she had smothered her child to death."

That is the animal that you think we should set free.

That is the breed of animal you shelter in your country.

That is the reason why you are suffering.

3:08 PM  

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