"QANA" AGAIN!!
You fucking idiots, you and your stepfathers in the Land of Opportunity where I foolishly reside... How inane and morally, emotionally, and politically bankrupt can you be. Do you really think you can bomb your way out of this? You dare talk of democracy and freedom when our lives are your dregs, our children your targets, and the whole world your shooting range? How dare you, you little sorry episodes of conceited spiteful despicable existence. Go on, keep churning the ground and sowing the seeds of hatred and anger. For soon the crops will grow, and it will be time to harvest. And the harvest will be plentiful, and I hope I will live long enough to see the day.
Hezbollah WANTS civilians to die, and GOD isn't your criminal leadership happy to deliver. Or is your imported state-of-the-crime technology being tricked by the beastly HA forces? And where in the temporal and geographic vicinity of the Qana massacre were rockets launched towards Israel? You don't know, but you trust your P(C)rime Minister for doing the right thing. Every last one of you who finds excuses and justifications to what is happening is as murderous as those who are executing the crime, from Bush to Rice to Olmert to Peretz to dag to KSM. EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU DO YOU HEAR ME? Don't you even have the decency to be quiet and leave us alone? Do you have leave your filthy marks EVERYWHERE? I am telling you sons and daughters of Israel. What goes around comes around, and he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword. You have managed to strip me of my tolerance, my love for peace, my will to compromise for a better future. I have never wanted anything but peace and love for the area, for its people to live in harmony, to thrive together in prosperity and agreement. Your flagrant contemptuous lies and proverbial impunity have made me torch my hopes and ideals and want nothing but retribution. The Israeli-Hezbollah conflict is what you and your puppeted media call this open Israeli war against the Lebanese people. Why? because you know, YOU KNOW that you cannot take out Hezbollah, neither through the air nor through the ground. YOU KNOW that you're fighting not a conventional army but a guerilla, and not a state but an ideology. You know it all, and yet, your arrogance and criminality bear no restraint. I tell you this though. Be alarmed and be careful. What you have done to the Lebanese and Palestinian people over the past sixty years is not going away. Your fake apologies and false regrets won't wipe away the blood of our dead and dying children. Their ripped little bodies buried under the rubble glow brighter than the sun and stand taller than the hill of the Golgotha. And they will come back to haunt you, and drag you down to the darkest corners of hell where you belong. Just remember these words, and live your low earthly lives while you can.
posted by Fouad at 12:09 PM
57 Comments:
ksm, how dare you try to justify this. you have no human dignity whatsoever left in you? it's sickening, how much brainwashing the israelis and the americans are performing, with their twisted double standard logic. if these children were american or israelis, the whole world would rise. but no, they are lebanese children. muslim children. they deserve to be slaughtered and murdered. they do not deserve life. sickening and nauseating and disgusting.just leave us alone.
Fouad, yes they are idiots.
And only idiots will even try as ksm to justify murder. genocide. the extemination of innocents.
The seeds have already started to bear fruit. I've taken my 2nd bite.
"Nothing could be further from our intentions and our interests than harming civilians - everyone understands that. When we do harm civilians, the whole world recognizes that it is an exceptional case that does not characterize us."
I knew of Olmert being a mindless brute, but a stand-up comedian? That's a talent of his I was not aware of. Anyway, KSM yalli bazarkon, will you kindly stop insulting my intelligence and bugger off. I have no patience for your insolence OR cretinism.
> then places his missle launcher next to a residence,
> how are you supposed to defend yourself?
can I answer, can I answer.
By destroying the residence and killing everyone who live in it, then destroying the rest of the street, then drop bombs large enough to make sure that even the people hiding in the shelters will die too then bomb the bridges to make sure the survivers cannot run away.
Right?
Oh and at the end of the day you say how sorry you were, so you can repeate the same story the next day.
Right?
Oh and if he UN say anything you also bomb their quarters killing 4 people and apologize too.
Right?
And if KSA sends medical supply you also bomb their trucks and apologize.
Right?
And when the red cross try to evacuate people you bomb their convoy then apologize again.
Right?
And when you sink that low you try to show everyone that the terrorists did something as bad, so tha gives you right to become a muderer too!
ksm
(-ak!)
ISRAEL started this war, don't start and end arguments with statements you state as gospel. Israel can choose not to target civilians but clearly it is CHOOSING to target civilians for whatever barbaric reason. HA kidnapped SOLDIERS. how many times do we have to spell it out for you? are you dyslexic? are you so devoid of decent human feeling that you can't even think of being angry at your governement for such inhumanity and WAR CRIMES??
is one israeli life worth 60 lebanese ones? how can you even grovel to justify this gross brutality of a massacre?
and why am i even wasting time explaining this to you??
KSM,
Perhaps if you spent even 3 hours volunteering on a Red Cross Ambulance out of Qana, you would pause before speaking in such an inhuman way.
Collateral damage?
What kind of rationalization is that?
What kind of utter denial?
You don't "defend" yourself by razing your neighbor to the ground.
By destroying Lebanon, Israeli is acting as a blind barbarian state, totally devoid of moral ethics as well as real strategic planning. In the short run, the terrorist threat will not be wiped out (as is already obvious) and in the long run, terrorism around the world will only exponentially increase.
How is this productive?
How is this evidence of a real vision for the future of the Middle East?
Do you really think the people of Israel will be any safer after this is over? In the end, all of us, no matter where we live or who we are, will suffer the consequences of Israel's inept violence and aggression.
KSM, shut the FUCK UP!
What a sad, sad, day again. Killing, babies that could be mine, friends, family, neighbours...
Bush and his trigger happy buddies are indeed sowing very ominous seeds.
Europeans, Middle Eastern, African, American, Latino, whatever... In the last 10 or 20 years, many of us have studied together, lived together, worked together, cooked together, loved each other. We speak more than one language, we have lived in other countries.
Even though, I can feel tensions surfacing between friends from "different sides", I hope we can be strong enough to overcome them.
Yet I have a sad song in my head tonight...
"Ce parfum de nos années mortes
Ceux qui peuvent frapper à ta porte
Infinité de destin
On en pose un, qu'est-ce qu'on en retient? Le vent l'emportera..."
(Le vent nous portera, Noir Désir)
The sad truth is, Civilians die on both sides, BECAUSE Hezballah wants civilains to die. That's why they put military equipment near children. The sad fact is Israel cares more about civilian Muslim casualties than the Muslims care about civilian Muslim casualties.
I can not believe what I read! Are you for real, KSM?
"I ask you, was it right for Hezbollah to start this war?"
Same ending line. Go back a little you dumb idiot. What about the non-countable number of violations Israel committed by crossing the blue line in the last six years? bombing villages? What about the maps of the mines?
How about providing tangible evidence once and for all that HA was indeed launching rockets from area that are so close to residences and are within IDF's marginal error.
Just another idiot on a very tragic day! And I once again find myself obliged to comment on idiocy.
Post something on your blog for a change instead of echoing what Olmert il habeeli is saying.
I work with the mentally ill and the criminal to earn my daily bread. I have learned something about their moral reasoning. Anyone who makes the claim that another is 100% to blame and himself 0% is always wrong in the deepest way. There is always some unpleasant truth he is denying.
ksm gave the opposing side, firmly, but without insult. No one responded as if they had heard a thing.
If this is so, then you will never be free. If Israel is gone, it will be some other tribal conflict that you blame on others, teaching it to your children and keeping them bound as well. When you can begin to take 1% responsibility, you will begin to be free. Where will the final percentage of blame lie? Who knows? History will judge. But until you admit to 1%, you will be slaves.
Such words of wisdom! Thank you for being yet another one to show us the way to freedom. Be sure to scroll down and read, though, village idiot, before volunteering your life altering words. There was once a day, not so long ago I might add, when we were blaming Hezbollah for their irresponsible act, and blaming ourselves for being unable to unite for our country. Today though, we unite. We unite in the face of tyranny and impunity, in the face of murder and rape, in the face of our common enemy Israel. Understood? I guess not..
ksm,
You can not base everything on the last 19 days. If you don't know some history about the area, don't bother with commenting.
On a sad day like today where you desperately try to justify IDF's inhumane and deliberate acts, I am not going to indulge you and satisfy your curiousty with facts. Google will suffice! Do some homework!
And what evidence are you talking about, KSM? It is Israel that has been allegedly doing a lot of mistakes lately, no? Doesn't that make her a lot more obliged to submit evidence that her intentions are noble?
Strange ... very strange
wow, how englightening ksm! A BBC article. I don't know what I was thinking when I thought I should reply to your comment.
Fouad, I originally came to tell you they are indeed how you describe them. They will never have peace by force.
Qana 1996 Redeux?
Fouad,
So I too am "fucking idiot", a "sorry episode of conceited spiteful despicable existence", because of an accident of birth?
I am crying inside for that is how you have collectively tarred us, not as thinking individuals, and it matches the hatred of "anonymous".
**respectfully leaving**
KSM (-ak!)
the genesis of Israel, so to speak, is based on rape, murder, pillage, and of course fanaticism. Israel is a 'civilization' of war. KSM, you cannot reject or argue against this fact in any way possible. you are at war since you existed, this is YOUR history, not ours.
We are raging at yet another massacre you committed, but we are not surprised... and the world is not surprised, because this is who you are.
So don't try to justify Qana, it's irrelevant; Qana is only one of more than half a century of your murderous deeds.
aisling,
"collectively tarred"?? "accident of birth"??
is this what you got out of this post?
anyway, if you feel directly concerned by what I said, then maybe you are.
**Respectfully showing you out**
This world is so sickening. I am going to throw up now at the fact that some people are still defending israel.
I announce that the human race has become extinct. what is left is monsters.
btw, I hope this defines as mass destruction. by definition the US should bomb israel, or as a matter of fact itself, for having weapons of mass destruction. Or do standards only apply to us "terrorist arabs".
This world is so sick.
Like I said before the question and the answer are irrelevant. and the I"D"F actions are aggressions that has been taking place over decades. the resistance movements in Lebanon and Palestine ARE the outcome of the oppressive inhumane actions of the Israeli Government. and since 'democracy' is all the rage lately, these parties were elected for these same reasons. what I am saying is not an emotional outcry (fashar); because know that it is not my personal opinion as an Arab; Israeli peace activists, as suppressed as they are, and a majority of the jewish population in the US and around the world, will no longer tolerate barbarism committed in their name, and the day will come where even someone like you will understand that the only way to exist, is to exclude the warmongers (and the convicted war criminals from your gov), and start learning about human rights.
Still in answer to your question, yes I agree. prisoners' exchange. not just Quantar:
"Israel holds over 10,000 Palestinian and Lebanese prisoners, including 400 abducted children and 100 women. Human Rights groups claim they are tortured and starved..."
so what was the point of your question again?
Qantar is definitely on top of HA's prisoner list, but there are many others, lebanese and Arab. Did you know there are Arab women giving birth in Israeli jails? I personnaly know people who had been taken prisoners at the age of twelve during Israel's 1982 invasion and stayed in prison for eleven years.
And your point was?
Another "very important" reason for the kidnapping of the two soldiers: Over the years, having seen that peace talks with Israel are more like surrender talks, HA thought he could immitate Israel in trying to speak the only language she understands (violence that is).
And let's not forget the disputed Shebaa farms that is still occupied by Israel. It is just a matter of time before this land is acknowledged by the UN as lebanese land.
Plus the tens of thousands of mines that have killed and handicapped hundreds of lebanese in the last six years. Do those not count?
ksm EVEN if we tell you yes samir qantar, yes, yes, yes to all of the above (and i am not telling you so), why in bloody hell are you STILL trying to evaluate HA's kidnapping? are you by any chance STILL trying to justify this war, this massacre? fine, without name-calling, without profanities, let me tell you this (again):
if the IRA kidnapped some englishman how feasible is it for the English army to go bombard Ireland, slaughtering hundreds of innocent irishmen in the process?
this is an analogy which compares very well to israel/lebanon, yet is clearly outrageous. so why isn't what israel doing now outrageous?? why is it not termed "state-sponsored terrorism" yet?
when will you be strong enough to face this racist, murderous reality?
My dear friends,
War is something that I choose to not understand. There will always be a side that will dominate. This war that is being fought has been fought may times on the same land and the live that have been lost will not be forgotten. It will be up to the present generations to try to form some respect for human worth. It is the human factor that this war is being fought. The lives that have been in captivity we will never know the true numbers. But to know that individuals have been taken as a prisoner in Israeli, and do nothing is that right?
Who is defending Lebanon? The Lebanese army? Do they even exist? Lebanon has been through so much in the past six year. Always under some form of control from one side to the other. The start of this war was just the beginning of what has been brewing for a long time.
At one point the future looked very prospective in the fact that A Strong leader was emerging and standing up for positive outcomes. Then what happened? Wasn’t he killed?
How much suffering can a country endure? Isn’t Hezbollah the people of Lebanon?
I view Lebanon like a baby try to grow into the newly found freedom. Every time the baby would advance and take a step in the right direction someone one would always push it back. Not letting it venture and learn how to stand on its own. This has only cause sorrow from its surrounding brothers, sisters, ants, uncles, mothers, and fathers and on and on. This is why I believe Hezbollah was formed. People can only be pushed so much and so far. I am not agreeing with all the blood shed but from war you learn to desire growth. It is people like you Fouad what will bring a positive change in the Middle East.
It is the human factor that will always make the difference and make it worth every war that is ever fought.
Respectfully submitted
Israeli Rhetoric of Genocide: A Case of Chronic Hornkrantz Syndrome
The second Israeli massacre of Lebanese civilians in Qana in 10 years claimed at least 61 people, more than 37 of them children.
As the Israeli occupation forces continue their wholesale massacre of the civilians in Lebanon, various government officials are desperately trying to pin the blame on the Lebanese victims. [As of 29th July 2006 at least 600 Lebanese civilians, more than 45% of them children, have been killed and nearly 2,000 wounded by the Israeli Occupation Forces, according to the Lebanese government. Among them are 31 fighters.]
Israeli UN envoy Dan Gillerman said his country mourned with Lebanon on this ``horrible, sad and bloody Sunday.'' Israel never targeted civilians, he said, and the deaths in Qana were the result of Hezbollah's decision to hide among them.
``They are the victims of Hezbollah,'' Gillerman told the Security Council. ``If there were no Hezbollah, this would not have happened.''
U.S. Ambassador to the UN John Bolton said Hezbollah's actions were the ``fundamental cause'' of the conflict, and accused the group of hiding behind civilians.
In the first Qana massacre, April 18, 1996, the Israeli military artillery shelled a United Nations compound near Qana that was overflowing with 800 Lebanese civilians “who had fled from their villages on IDF orders.” The barrage killed 102 refugees and wounded hundreds of others.
The then Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres declared that “the sole guilty party, still on the ground, is Hezbollah. . . . We are dealing here with a horrible, cynical and irresponsible organization. Hezbollah’s grand strategy all along has been to hide behind the backs of civilians.”
Last week, an Israeli government spokesman said Israeli Foreign Minister responded to charges of 'disproportionate use of force' and 'collective punishment' of the civilian populations both in Gaza and Lebanon: “Terrorists use the population and live among them,” she said. “[M]any civilians in southern Lebanon have Katyusha and other rockets under their beds.”
“When you go to sleep with a missile,” she added, “you might find yourself waking up to another kind of missile.”
In an interview on the US-based official Israeli ‘news’ agency, CNN, another Israeli official retorted: “Yes, civilians are being killed [...] not by Israeli design, but because Hezbollah have been allowed to live among them [...] they live and store their weapons, explosives and rockets in Lebanese villages and hide behind the Lebanese civilians.”
How curious this chronic Hornkrantz Syndrome!
“On the dawn of 12 April 1893, the bokmakieries were singing as 200 German soldiers, newly arrived from Europe, took up their position around the small settlement of Hornkrantz. The village was the home of an African tribe, the Witbooi, and, although barely 100 kilometers from Windhoek, the fledgling capital of German South West Africa, Hornkrantz’s occupants had successfully resisted the encroaching Imperial power.”
“The German soldiers, part of one of the largest and most powerful land armies in the world, started firing from three directions, and within thirty minutes 16,000 rounds had been expended by 200 rifles. By the time this torrent of bullets had ceased it had wrought a dreadful carnage. Blood stained bodies and the remains of slaughtered animals were strewn around the settlement.”
“The German captain’s official report immediately following the massacre suggested that Witbooi were neutralised as a fighting force. One cable to Berlin more than a month after the raid suggested that fifty Witbooi soldiers had been killed.”
Gradually, however, it emerged that of the ninety people massacred by the brave soldiers only a few had been ‘able-bodied’ men. Seventy-eight of the victims were in fact women and children – not at all surprising when you attack a village, raid a residential area at the crack of dawn, or bombard a building filled with civilian refugees.
“German officialdom was forced to make what it termed ‘an undesirable revision’, it struck upon a brilliantly reply to the accusations. There had been heavy casualties among non-combatants conceded the Director of the German Colonial Department, but this was owing to the cowardice of the Witbooi men who took cover behind their womenfolk when fired upon.”
Another, somewhat less ‘brilliant’ variation of the ‘Hornkrantz Syndrome’ is the response you would get from the white folks in New Zealand. Ask any of them why they had to decimate the Maori population (the brave Brits massacred 5 out of every 6 Maoris – more than 208,000 of the 250,000 population round about the same time – by the 1890s) to steal their land (instead of just obtaining rest of the Maori land by deception, since the deception method had previously worked 'well'), and the white 'New Zealander' sporting a sadistic smirk on their face would tell you they didn’t kill any Maoris, "didn't have to… the cannibals just kept on bumping each other off at tea time!"
Source of quotes on Hornkrantz: Cocker, M., Rivers of Blood, Rivers of Gold: Europe’s Conquest of Indigenous Peoples, London, 1998.
Israel will not restrain
Why should it be always Israel that has to restrain itself?
Hizballah didn't restrain itself? Lebanon didn't restrain Hizballah!
You play with fire you get burned.
I hope that the Lebanese will remember that.
Next time you and your army of Hizballah provoke and attack Israel you'll be hit harshly again.
KSM,
Politics is never linear; by focusing on Hizbollah's prisoner scheme, you are simplistically avoiding the humanitarian question at the heart of this war-- namely, What can ever justify the killing of innocent lives, the destruction of a country?
It is increasingly clear to any thinking, feeling soul around the world that Israel, hand in hand with America, has an agenda for the Middle East that does not involve human rights, democracy, or values of peace and co-existence.
Israel used the pretext of kidnapped soldiers to sanction its military and political aims. Now a whole country is paying the price of this aggression. This is evidence of a lack of vision, lack of humanity, and lack of political savvy-- you too should open your eyes, your heart and your mind to what is really going on here.
Can you imagine, in the wake of discovering the devastation of the concentration camps after WWII, if someone had asked, But didn't the Jews start all this? That question alone betrays the heartless blindness of the witness.
If you can learn how to mourn Qana, KSM, you will be taking the first step toward a development of real empathy.
Even if you believe that Israel purposefully targets civilians (which I don't), where does that put them?
It puts them on the moral level of Hizb and Hammas. EVERY one of the thousands of missiles that Hizb has fired into Israel has been aimed at civilians - it's what they do.
So those of you who support what Hizb is doing and cheer at the civilian carnage caused by Hizb's missiles and suicide bombs should just shut up and take your medicine.
Your civilians are not worth any more or less than Israeli civilians. You are hypocrites - cowardly hypocrites at that.
God this must end. In the name of God, peace, not war. In the name of God, love, not hate.
-- FreeCyprus
http://hellenic-reporter.blogspot.com/
redfox what r u smoking?
and fouad this thread is fun, fits well for a bedtime story dont you think?
ksm, I don't know if you've been checking the news or which news you've been checking, but we are all demanding an immediate ceasefire for negotiations to start. Israel and the US refuse to halt military assaults, regardless of how many innocent people are killed and how many lives are destroyed. Don't be naive KSM. Giving up the soldiers won't stop anything. The plan is much larger than that. They want us to disarm HA and deploy the lebanese army. Well I got news for you, we cannot disarm HA. Israel and the US know that for a fact. They know how little power the army and government. Yet they keep going at it. Make no mistake. This is part of a larger plan for the region, a plan where lebanese lives are irrelevant and "collateral". So please KSM, whoever you are, think it over, read, look back at Israel's history of violence, see the extent of the tragedy we're enduring, and if you have words of sympathy, then fine, but if you have words of wisdom and advice on what we need to do and who's fault it is, please have the decency to take them elsewhere.
KSm said: If you hide behind your baby to shoot at my baby...
please don't drag babies in such arguments. be ashamed of such statement.
i just love your sugar coating none stop talking, thats the only thing i admire in israelis they are truly non stop fighters...
and for one second forget that this is a war between arabs and israel, wouldnt it hurt you a bit to hear what happened in Qana, wouldnt you tear a bit when you see small bodies pulled out the rebel with stone and dust filled in their mouth, and blood had stained their cloths, but still they look so angelic with their eyes shut.knowing that something much stronger than them was the reason after their silence.
you talk and fight so confident standing behind your ego, thats all.
this had revealed to me what kind of people you are, how you live and what you only predetermined to become,what you think and beleive,,that made me wonder if its true that the same God that had created us both.
all you had succeeded in is; making us not forget.
i wish i had stronger words to reason you,but i dont, i ask from everyone to not stay silent, not stand still at their comments, and say NO to the monsters of the world that justifies the death of my baby to defend himself.
I hear you. I understand your your anger, your hate. I also hope you understand that Israel's leaders are bombing your people, but not all Israelis support this. Much like how America has invaded Iraq but many Americans are against the actions and decisions of our leaders. It's obvious the people of Iraq and Lebanon are innocent.
"Nothing could be further from our intentions and our interests than harming civilians - everyone understands that. When we do harm civilians, the whole world recognizes that it is an exceptional case that does not characterize us."
Cough... excuse me, ksm, but there is no defense for killing innocent people. Was the Israeli government being compassionate when they bulldozed block after block of Palestinian neighborhoods? I think not. The Israeli government has much to answer for, and defending their actions instead of realizing how wrong their actions have been only perpetuates the conflict.
I believe in the concept of the "great nations" of God, and I believe most people are good, but I also believe many in power today are evil and guided by hate and profit at the expense of what is right. Let's pray there is a Heaven and a Hell.
I am loving the new 'angry fouad' version ;)
Khay!fashaytelle khel'e shway!
So I just saw a video on CNN.com. about the apocalypse coming soon. So the jews, christians and muslims believe that jesus is coming back. They all believe that they are going to be saved and the other two will go to hell for not believing their version of the truth. If we all believe in the same God and the same jesus, how come we are fighting in God's name like that. We need to stop for a minute and look what is happening. No God will want what is happening in his name and on his behalf. We have to stop all the hate and open our hearts. There is no selected people, no one better than anyone. We are all humans, how can we do this. How can we see little angels dying and stand like this. I don't think that god will burn millions in hell for not believing the exact version of the truth, if they believe in the truth in general. We need to stop fighting in the name of God or jesus or moses or mohammad. we need to stop fighting, full stop.
Peace be with everyone. I hope this bloodbath ends soon.
Had Israel wanted to retaliate the PROPER way, WITHOUT HARMING CIVILIANS; if this was really the intension in good faith, Israel could have simply entered by land and hit directly the targets they are after, as they've done before, no? Let's say it's ok for them to use their planes but only to direct their soldiers on land heyk maybe their prevent the loss of innocent lives. BUT retaliating by air and sea, with bombs that create craters as big as a whole building and bombs with chemicals that destroy and burn - as opposed to the primitive Katyousha - destroying everything EXCEPT the enemy FIRST is not the way of defence. Killing civilians, purposely or by accident, whether they were used as human shields or not is NOT JUSTIFIABLE by any human race.
I don't care what any media says, war has never been a good thing for anyone. We freaken go to schools, educate ourselves all of our lives for this? Why do we even learn to talk? Let's simply teach the generations to come how to use weapons and make wars if this is what civilisation is all about and if this is what democracy, peace and anti-terrorism is all about. L3amash!!
p.s. Fouad, you made me laugh today, for the first time in weeks, with your "KSM yalli bazarkon". Haydeh fashit khele2 bi ma7alla, thank you ;)
Fouad,
I hate to see this post coming from you.
Before I reply, let me take a second to say a few things:
1) The death of any child - Israeli or Lebanese, Jew or Christian or Muslim, Caucasian or Arab, intentionally or accidentally killed - is an unbearable tragedy. The death of any innocent - child or adult, man or women, sick or healthy - is a reason for mourning.
2) Though I'm a supporter of Israel (and I know that more than a few of you have probably written me off with those words) I do not defend everything Israel does (check my own blog for confirmation), and it is my personal opinion that somewhere between some and many of Israel's attacks in this war have been criminally (as in war crime) reckless with innocent life - such as attacks on bridges in civillian use, when those bridges could have been attacked at a time when they were not being used. That said, not every Israeli attack - even attacks that kill civillians - are war crimes.
3) The deaths at Qana were horrific, and cannot be minimized in any way.
That said, in this instance it was neither Israel's fault nor a war crime (and remember, I've had no problem saying otherwise when I believe the facts warrant it). An Israeli missile hit the building, but Hezbollah killed the people inside.
Israel has released video of Hezbollah firing rockets from civillian areas in Qana, and the area of that building in particular. Now I ask you - was there any way in the world that the pilot firing that missile from 5000 feet in the air at a building used by Hezbollah could have known that there were civillians inside??
In contrast, is there any way the Hezbollah operatives who used that building as a launch platform could NOT have known of the civillians inside, when they were right there, on the ground with them??
Who was in a better position to know about the civillians - the pilot firing at the building from 5000 feet, or the Hezbollah operatives firing 5 feet
from the building?
And is there any way that Hezbollah could not have known that by using the building as a launch platform they were painting a giant target on the building for the IAF??
An Israeli missile hit that building, but Hezbollah killed the people inside.
And since I anticipate a stream of angry responses calling me inhuman, let me just say this:
If in your posts you cannot or do not answer the four questions I've posed above, it is for one reason only - because you know that the answers are no, no, Hezbollah and no, and you don't like the conclusion those answers force you to reach.
You want justice for the victims of Qana? Find the Hezbollah murderers who fire from civillian areas and bring them to trial.
Jews around the world are best at what they do.
Look at this website:
http://research.cens.ucla.edu/portal/page?_pageid=54,65678,54_65679&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
God bless America.
God bless Israel.
I am a Zionist and as we speak we are coming to kill son's and father's that are active in
Hizbollah terrorist militia. We do not wish harm civilians and only target military operating. The truth of Kana has not yet come out.
If you have relatives in south, we implore you to tell them to follow evacuation order issued by Israel. Lebanese Army - please stay out of battle, we wish you no harm. In great numbers we come now. We strike where there is Hizbollah - ANYWHERE. You shall soon be rebuilding Lebanon.
Most important - WE WILL NOT STAY IN YOUR COUNTRY.
To Lebanese that not fighing us, we wish you love and peace.
The Lebanese people have made a choice to allow terrorists into their homes and their lives.
For the sake of humanity, terrorism must be wiped from the face of the earth.
Rise up against those amongst you who put your lives in danger for a sick and demented ideology that has death and destruction as its foundation.
Your leaders are the criminals who perpetuate this crime against you.
Hezbollah is the cancer that is killing Lebanan and you foolishly blame the surgeon who is trying to cut the cancer.
Give up your support for terrorism and LIVE!
You're a surgeon taking out a tumor?? yes, and taking out the whole body with it. Surgeon.. how stupid can you be. HA is one third of the lebanese people, and do you know why?? because YOU occupied our land for 18 years, because your impunity and disrespect for other people's lives and territory did nothing but water the seeds resistance. And we're ALL paying the price for your arrogance. Take out Hezbollah.. let's see how successful the second largest military power in the world will be at doing that. I don't even know why I answer dimwits like you.
Akiva, I'm a doctor not a lawyer, so forgive me if I answer your questions with more questions:
1) Your question: Was there any way in the world that the pilot firing that missile from 5000 feet in the air at a building used by Hezbollah could have known that there were civillians inside??
Response: Given the fact that civilians attempting to escape their villages in Lebanon have been shot in transit, that ambulances have been bombed, that rescue teams are terrified of being killed in their efforts to collect bodies, that roads and bridges have been decimated, isn't it obvious and reasonable that the pilot would assume that civilians were still present in huge numbers in Qana??
2) Your question: In contrast, is there any way the Hezbollah operatives who used that building as a launch platform could NOT have known of the civillians inside, when they were right there, on the ground with them??
Response: Do you think that if Hezbollah was firing from a house next door, where there were no civilians, that an "imprecise" attack would not have resulted in a crater the size of a neighborhood, still managing to wipe out innocents in Qana?
3) Your question: Who was in a better position to know about the civillians - the pilot firing at the building from 5000 feet, or the Hezbollah operatives firing 5 feet from the building?
Response: Again, regardless of who knew what, when was there a break or a semblance of safety in the midst of the onslought for people to flee?
4) Your question: And is there any way that Hezbollah could not have known that by using the building as a launch platform they were painting a giant target on the building for the IAF??
Response: Is there any part of Lebanon that is not a glaring target for the IAF? As far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be.
fz - as a lawyer not a doctor, that's fine :). Thanks for taking the time to answer.
>>>1) Your question: Was there any way in the world that the pilot firing that missile from 5000 feet in the air at a building used by Hezbollah could have known that there were civillians inside??
Response: Given the fact that civilians attempting to escape their villages in Lebanon have been shot in transit, that ambulances have been bombed, that rescue teams are terrified of being killed in their efforts to collect bodies, that roads and bridges have been decimated, isn't it obvious and reasonable that the pilot would assume that civilians were still present in huge numbers in Qana??<<<
Whether or not there are civillians present, an Israeli pilot cannot simply assume that everywhere that Hezbollah uses to fight - every rocket launch and storage site, every structure its fighters use for cover - is filled with civillians. Were that to assumption required, yes, fewer civillians would die in the short term. But many more would die in the long term.
Why?
Because if those are the rules, then Israel - and any other state assaulted by groups who use civillian buildings for military purposes - simply can't fight back at all. And what that means is that every group or state that wants to attack another group or state will begin using those tactics; placing missile and rocket launchers in suburbs, training basses in hospitals, weapons storage in schools. And when that happens, either the state being attacked will allow itself to die (because it has no way of fighting back) or it will fight for its own survival, whatever the cost (more likely). And when it does that, many more civillians will die.
That reality is exactly why the Geneva Conventions say that military targets cannot be immunized by placing them in civillian institutions.
So while an Israeli pilot may know there are civillians in Qana, unless he knows that they are IN THAT PARTICULAR BUILDING that he knows was used by hostile forces, he can only take his shot and pray that there are no innocents inside.
>>>2) Your question: In contrast, is there any way the Hezbollah operatives who used that building as a launch platform could NOT have known of the civillians inside, when they were right there, on the ground with them??
Response: Do you think that if Hezbollah was firing from a house next door, where there were no civilians, that an "imprecise" attack would not have resulted in a crater the size of a neighborhood, still managing to wipe out innocents in Qana?<<<<
Except that there is no evidence at all to say that happened. I can understand why you want to believe that's true. But be consistent: when it comes to things like attacks on the UN post, you say it couldn't have been an accident because they are so precise and accurate. Now you want to say they were "imprecise" - because you don't want to believe Hezbollah intentionally put civillians at risk.
>>3) Your question: Who was in a better position to know about the civillians - the pilot firing at the building from 5000 feet, or the Hezbollah operatives firing 5 feet from the building?
Response: Again, regardless of who knew what, when was there a break or a semblance of safety in the midst of the onslought for people to flee?<<<
you are avoiding the question ("regardless . . . ") because, as I said, you know the answer and don't like it.
>>>
4) Your question: And is there any way that Hezbollah could not have known that by using the building as a launch platform they were painting a giant target on the building for the IAF??
Response: Is there any part of Lebanon that is not a glaring target for the IAF? As far as I can tell, there doesn't seem to be.<<<
ditto.
Akiva,
I'm not sure I understand your logic, but let me pose a few more questions...
Are you really suggesting that the Israeli military "can't fight back" against Hezbollah except by razing Lebanon to the ground?
I'm not sure what you expect... for Hezbollah to say, Ok, look, we're going to head out of the towns and villages where we live to fight the Israelis on open ground? I haven't seen any Hezbollah fighters running around with little kids strapped to their bodies. They shoot out of the places where they live, not intentionally cowering in hospitals or schools.
And you totally ignored my point that the civilians haven't been able to flee secondary to persistent bombardment by the Israelis. They've been shot on the very roads leading out of the war zone.
The reason people stress diplomacy over war is because of the human consequence of military action, the civilian consequences, the consequences on a human population, on a country, on a region, on a people.
War is a last ditch effort, not a starting place.
Trust me, I'm no knee-jerk apologist for Hezbollah. I have no inherent motivation to "believe" in Hezbollah or defend them reflexively. I don't feel compelled to defend certain people above others just because of my background, for as far as I can tell, strict group identity is often fertile ground for racism, hatred, and the sanctioning of absurd, blinded violence.
I'm a humanist, Akiva,
and let's face it, you're talking about a fairly sophisticated bunch of rebels versus a nuclear superpower. Who is wreaking the most havoc? And how many innocent people are getting killed in the process?
Sitting around complaining that Hezbollah is using civilians as a cover is a way to ignore the broader picture, Akiva. It's a way to rationalize against the scope of the damage of that is being perpetrated, a way to create a defensive denial of the brutal, disproportionate reaction of the Israel army.
Unless we push ourselves to recognize the value of fraternity and diplomacy over the terror of war, we are doomed to remain suspended in this kind of scenario, which does no justice to our collective advancement as human beings on this planet Earth.
>>Are you really suggesting that the Israeli military "can't fight back" against Hezbollah except by razing Lebanon to the ground?
fz: tell me how they can do it? How do they stop Hezbollah from raiding across the border and firing rockets at the north - which Hezbollah has been doing since 2000, without any real Israeli response? Do they just grit their teeth and take it, because the lebanese can't or won't remove Hezbollah from the border or make them stop trying to kill as many Israelis as possible? Do they ignore rocket fire, because in responding they will inevitably kill civillians? Do they say to their own citizens "sorry, you're just going to have to live - or die - with it"?
>>>I'm not sure what you expect... for Hezbollah to say, Ok, look, we're going to head out of the towns and villages where we live to fight the Israelis on open ground? I haven't seen any Hezbollah fighters running around with little kids strapped to their bodies. They shoot out of the places where they live, not intentionally cowering in hospitals or schools.<<<
Yes, that's exactly what I expect. Because fz, firing rockets at another nation from civillian suburbs is a war crime. And it's a war crime for exactly the reason that the state being attacked from civillian suburbs will have no choice but to respond against civillian suburbs. The Geneva conventions explicitly say that attacking from civillian populations does not immunize the site of the attacks from the response, and the deaths of the non-combatants are legally attributable to the group attacking from within them.
Would Hezbollah stand a chance against Israel if they fought in the open? Of course not. But why is that a bad thing?? Maybe that knowledge would have kept them from attacking Israel in the first place and precipitating this ghastly nightmare.
As for attacking where they live, and not choosing to put themselves in places like churches and schools, or not forcing civillians to be human shields sorry, but that's not what many Lebanese who fled the south or moved out have said. Some quotes:
from http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/07/30/foreboding/
Some choice quotes, from Lebanese civillians:
“Hezbollah came to Ain Ebel to shoot its rockets,” said Fayad Hanna Amar, a young Christian man, referring to his village. “They are shooting from
between our houses.”
"One woman, who would not give her name because she had a government
job and feared retribution, said Hezbollah fighters had killed a man
who was trying to leave Bint Jbail.
“This is what’s happening, but no one wants to say it” for fear of Hezbollah, she said."
"Not all villages in southern Lebanon are Shiite. Just above the
abandoned SLA base at the old Majidiyya estate on the Lebanon-Israel border sits a small, quiet Druse village called Mari. You will not find Mari on any maps, but at the beginning of the current conflict Mari found itself caught between the Israeli Air Force, which apparently wanted to avoid bombing the village directly, and Hizbullah, which
wanted to enter the town at all costs. You see, Mari's location would provide the militia an excellent overview of the Israeli city of Kiryat Shmona (and the settlement of Metulla, which is closer but much smaller), and finding a way to operate there would give Hizbullah increased civilian cover for their Katyusha rocket fire.
Residents who have recently escaped from Mari tell of a dramatic, desperate situation in the village. The Druse residents, who have no affinity at all for Hizbullah, resisted Hizbullah's attempts to enter the village. The IAF apparently and unwittingly assisted in their resistance by bombing the roads leading into the village, cutting off the militia's ability to enter the town, at least temporarily. Hizbullah responded by cutting off the town's electricity and water supply, essentially laying seige to a town on its own side of the border, hoping that its residents would pack up and leave. Many of them have done so. My sources say that Hizbullah has been desperate to enter the village but has as of yet been unable to do so in large numbers. Residents also describe a growing humanitarian crisis in the village due to the lack of fresh water.
In the interests of clarity, let me reiterate what I have already said: Hizbullah attempted to enter Mari not to defend it from attackers, but so they could fire rockets from the village toward Israel. Hizbullah's intention was to bring Israeli reprisals on the town, ostensibly to destroy or damage it significantly, and to cause greater civilian suffering. Hizbullah's MO and tactics are well-known in the south. However, Druse typically defend their own villages, and in the case of Mari (a place I have been to several times, many of whose residents I know personally), the residents have desperately tried to keep
Hizbullah fighters out of their area."
Or a comment from a Lebanese expat living in germany, who wrote the following to Der Tagesspiegel, a Berlin daily:
"I lived until 2002 in a small southern village near Mardshajun that is inhabited by a majority of Shias like me. After Israel left Lebanon, it did not take long for Hezbollah to have the say in our town and all other towns. Received as successful resistance fighters, they appeared armed to the teeth and dug rocket depots in bunkers in our town as well. The social work of the Party of God consisted in building a school and a residence over these bunkers! A local sheikh explained to me laughing that the Jews would lose in any event because the rockets would either be fired at them or if they attacked the rocket depots, they would be condemned by world opinion on account of the dead civilians. These people do not care about the Lebanese population, they use them as shields, and, once dead, as propaganda. As long as they continue existing there, there will be no tranquility and peace.
Dr. Mounir Herzallah
Berlin-Wedding"
This isn't Israeli propaganda - this is eyewitness testimony from Lebanese saying that the Israelis are telling the truth, that Hezbollah is deliberately choosing to fight from civillian areas and forcing people to stay, in the knowledge that whatever the "Jews" do it will cost them - either because they will not respond and Hezbollah will continue attacking, or because they will respond and innocents will die.
>>>And you totally ignored my point that the civilians haven't been able to flee secondary to persistent bombardment by the Israelis. They've been shot on the very roads leading out of the war zone.<<<<
Check out my own blog - I haven't ignored it, I've condemned it.
>>>I'm a humanist, Akiva,
and let's face it, you're talking about a fairly sophisticated bunch of rebels versus a nuclear superpower. Who is wreaking the most havoc? And how many innocent people are getting killed in the process?<<<
fz, I believe you are a person of good faith, but making moral judgments on the basis of quantity rather than quality is a mistake. Take this post from Sandmonkey:
"Some slightly uncomfortable questions
I had an interesting conversation yesterday with a co-worker, on the concept of the disporportinate Israeli attacks on Lebanon compared to Hezbollah attacks. He pointed to me his dismay at Hezbollah's rockets ineffeciency at hitting targets. He said "If you noticed, they bomb each other almost equally in amounts of missiles shot, but 90% of Hezbollah's rockets miss or hit nothing, while all of Israel's rockets hit something. If Hezbollah had better rockets, the civillian death toll on the Israeli side would be huge, and they would be really hurting by now."
Impressed by this point of view that I haven't considerd before, I asked him what he would've thought, if a Hezbollah rocket had attacked a building in Israel, killing 55 civillians, of which 30 were children. He responded immeidtely "I would've thought it was great! A7san!".
So I repeated the same question to 8 other co-workers, and the responses so far have been as follows: 7 said they would celebrate, and 2 said that such an attack would've been bad, but justified! Yeah! Not a single person said that the death of any civllian, on either side, is an equal tragedy. Civillians dead on our side is tragic, civillian deaths on their side cause for celebration. And if you think I am being unfair or demonizing arabs or whatever, do me a favor and try it at your work place and/or with members of your family. Conduct this little social experiment and see for yourself. The results are very interesting.
This begs another question: If we were the ones who had the superior military machine, would we have shown them any mercy, or any regard to their civillian casualties? Would we have hesitated to wipe them all out? Armed forces, civillians, whatever? Would any of us have felt bad about it at all? Or would we be filled with the feelings of Pride, honor and dignity that we keep talking about day and night?
I am just wondering!
What do you think?"
http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/08/01/some-slightly-uncomfortable-questions/#comments
The points he is making are important; that Hezbollah is killing fewer Israelis isn't for any lack of trying - it's because the Israelis are more prepared, and have better defenses. And were Israel trying to maximize casualties, far more than 700 would be dead.
>>>>Sitting around complaining that Hezbollah is using civilians as a cover is a way to ignore the broader picture, Akiva. It's a way to rationalize against the scope of the damage of that is being perpetrated, a way to create a defensive denial of the brutal, disproportionate reaction of the Israel army. <<<<
I disagree. Because as long as we ignore the reason why so many civillians have died - Hezbollah's Filthy Tactics (as another Lebanese blogger titled a post) - and allow Israel and its citizens to be painted as brutal murderers gleefully killing children, the flames of future wars will be fanned ever higher. Peace - may it come soon - requires recognition that Israelis are not monsters, that they are not responsible for every non-combatant death in Lebanon and that they act as they do only because they legitimately believe they have no other choice.
>>>>Unless we push ourselves to recognize the value of fraternity and diplomacy over the terror of war, we are doomed to remain suspended in this kind of scenario, which does no justice to our collective advancement as human beings on this planet Earth. <<<<
I agree completely. But sometimes it is necessary to fight, when diplomacy fails. How many died in Rwanda because the world only attempted diplomacy, and not force, to stop the genocide? How many in Darfur? How many would have died in the Balkans had Nato not stopped the Serbs?
I think a diplomatic solution is necessary. And I'd welcome your comments to the one I've proposed on my own blog. But a diplomatic solution that is sustainable requires a rejection of the false caricatures and accusations against the Israelis.
Ah Fouad,
You reap what you sow.
Bottom line, if you arabs would lay down your arms there would be peace.
If Israel lay down its arms, you would wipe it off the face of the earth.
I wonder why I bother talking to terrorists like you.
Yes, terrorists. If you support them, that makes you a terrorist too.
Lindasog, and that makes you a murderer of innocent people. Killers of your own brothers and sisters in GOD, just like Cain killed Abel (HIS BROTHER) out of SELFISHNESS and REVENGE! Nothing have changed since your first existence on this Earth.
Linda - what exactly do you think you are accomplishing with posts like that? Do you think you are Engaging anyone? Making Israel safer? If anything, you're doing the opposite
Akiva,
It’s clear that you want to see Israeli policy as being motivated by earnest, well-intentioned self-defense, but that ain’t the story on the ground now, and it isn’t the history of the region.
For peace to transpire, Israel must soberly face and come to terms with its legacy of violence, displacement and racism, including the eviction, murder, and subjugation of the Palestinian people.
Unless Israel is prepared to acknowledge its own atrocities (including numerous atrocities against the Lebanese people) at the negotiating table, and be willing to engage in respectful dialogue, the same can’t be expected from the other side.
"Arab Terrorism" doesn't come out of a vacuum. The PLO, Hezbollah, Hamas--these are all direct consequences of Israeli attitudes and policies over the years, and as much as I disagree with such tactics, their origin is clear.
False caricatures need to be deconstructed on both sides if progress is to occur. I’m sick of hearing about the “gleeful, cheering, terrorist-supporting Arab" and the “racist, bloodthirsty, gun-toting, Zionist settler.”
Both sides must be held accountable for their attitudes and their actions.
An Excerpt From Democracy Now!
AMY GOODMAN: Peter Bouckaert joins us on the phone from Beirut. He is the Emergencies Director for Human Rights Watch. Welcome to Democracy Now!, Peter.
PETER BOUCKAERT: Thanks for having me on.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you tell us what you found?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Human Rights Watch has been on the ground in Lebanon, as well as in Israel, investigating the kind of attacks that are taking place on both sides of this border. Our findings have been that Israel is carrying out indiscriminate attacks inside Lebanon and that this is resulting in the deaths of many civilians. We've identified eyewitnesses and survivors to many of these attacks, and we can clearly state that Israel's excuse that Hezbollah is really responsible for the civilian deaths has no foundation in fact, because in many of these sites where civilians are being killed, like the tragic case in Qana just a few days ago, there was no Hezbollah anywhere nearby and no rocket firing taking place when Israel struck civilian homes and civilian cars.
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk more about what you found in Qana? Are you revising the numbers downward of the number of people killed there?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Yes. Originally it was reported that more than 50 people died in Qana. However, our preliminary investigation, based on interviews with the survivors and the doctors at the hospital and rescue workers, has now established that at least 28 people died in Qana, and those bodies have been recovered. It's possible that that death toll will rise slightly, but we do not think that it will rise to the 54 people who had been originally reported killed.
There was no conscious effort by the Lebanese authorities to inflate the death toll from Qana. It simply happened in the chaos and confusion of the rescue efforts that certain assumptions were made, because the authorities had a list of 63 people who were believed to be inside the building, and they had identified only nine survivors. However, they have reached the village only hours after the attack had taken place, and in fact, there were at least 22 survivors. So that explains the discrepancy which happened in the heat of the moment in this very difficult rescue effort.
AMY GOODMAN: Is it possible there are still bodies in the wreckage?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, according to the family members, at least 13 people are still missing from the home they were sheltering in in Qana. It's unclear whether their bodies remain buried or whether they fled from the scene during the bombardment in the night and simply have not been located. The rescue effort and the recovery effort has now been called off in Qana. The recovery teams do not expect to find any more bodies, so we’re still trying to establish what has happened to these 13 people.
I think it's important that this slight controversy over the numbers of those killed in Qana does not distract from the fact that a very brutal attack took place in Qana, a totally unjustified attack took place, and that Israel has had to backtrack significantly on its original statement. Originally Israel said that they had attacked Qana because Hezbollah was there and was firing rockets at the time of the attack. Now, Israeli officials have been forced to admit, under heavy scrutiny, that they had no information about Hezbollah present at the time of the attack or rocket firing and that Qana had simply been put on the target list, because several days before, rockets had been fired from nearby Qana. And that just shows you how indiscriminate many of these attacks are.
Israel is not adhering to the laws of war, because it's failing to distinguish between military objects it's entitled to attack and civilian homes, cars and infrastructure, which it should refrain from attacking. And that's why so many civilians are dying in Lebanon today.
AMY GOODMAN: Peter Bouckaert is Emergencies Director at Humans Rights Watch. Looking at the Lebanese government and Lebanese Red Cross’s response to the Human Rights Watch report, and they stand by 57 deaths in Qana. They say, “It's confirmed there are 57 bodies,” according to Elias Diab, an official in the Lebanese Red Cross operations room in Beirut. “27 of them are children,” he said.
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, we went to visit the hospital in Tyre, which is the official government hospital where all the bodies were taken to. We established that there are 28 bodies there. And according to the officials at the hospital, there are no bodies which were taken to any other hospital. And we're certainly willing to look at the evidence that the Lebanese authorities have and revise our death figures, but I spoke to many journalists who were on the scene of this very brutal killing all day long who closely followed the recovery effort, and they reported to me that they did not see more than 27, 28 bodies being recovered from the rubble.
But as I said before, I think it's really important that the controversy over the numbers does not distract from the larger picture of what is happening in Lebanon today. We issued a report today called “Fatal Strikes: Israel's Indiscriminate Attacks Against Civilians in Lebanon,” which is on our website, www.hrw.org, which clearly shows that Israel, time and time again, is striking civilian homes and civilian cars, killing entire families without any military objects in sight.
And there is a deep, deep crisis in Southern Lebanon today. Tens of thousands of civilians remain stuck in their homes in towns which are the scenes of very fierce fighting. And they're simply not able to flee, because the fighting is too fierce and because their cars are being attacked on the road and because they cannot afford the extremely high taxi fares that are being charged. At the same time, Israeli officials are saying that anybody left in the south after they have issued these warnings is going to be considered a Hezbollah supporter, and therefore, a fair, legitimate target.
It's a dire situation. Humanitarian supplies are running out. Medical personnel cannot reach the wounded. Bodies are being left in the street rotting, because recovery teams cannot reach them. And that should be the focus of our attention. And there needs to be real pressure on the international community and on Israel and Hezbollah to allow for an improvement in the humanitarian situation and to respect the laws of war.
AMY GOODMAN: Peter Bouckaert, what are those laws? Human Rights Watch, accusing Israel of war crimes; what exactly are war crimes?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, war crimes are grave breaches of the laws of war, and the laws of war have a very clear principle. Combatants, like Israel and Hezbollah, have to distinguish between military targets that they are allowed to attack and civilians, objects, which they have to refrain from attacking. Obviously, sometimes civilians do get killed in legitimate military attacks. I’ve worked in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq, and we documented many abuses there, too, and many cases in which civilians were killed.
But what we see in Lebanon is very different, and also what we see in Israel. Inside Israel Hezbollah is carrying out direct attacks against civilians with the aims to kill civilians. And this is a war crime, because their attacks are against civilians. Inside Lebanon, we find that Israel is not making the most fundamental distinctions of the laws of war, which is that it has to refrain from attacking civilian objects. In plain words, before pulling the trigger, they have to make sure that they're aiming at a military target. And time and time again, we find that civilians are being killed without any military objective in sight.
AMY GOODMAN: Peter Bouckaert, the head of the military, Halutz, the general, says that “Hezbollah places civilians as a defensive shield between itself and us, while the Army places itself as a defensive shield between the citizens of Israel and Hezbollah's terror. That's the main difference between us,” he says, Hezbollah using civilians as a human shield. Your response?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, Human Rights Watch has no problem denouncing the kind of war crimes and abuses that Hezbollah is committing against Israel. We have said since the beginning that these are war crimes and that Hezbollah should stop these indiscriminate attacks against civilians. But at the same time, it's a very convenient excuse for Israel to say that civilians are being killed because Hezbollah is shielding behind them, and that's simply not the reality on the ground in many of the cases we have documented.
Time and time again, we have documented that civilians have been killed without any Hezbollah being in the neighborhood, without any Hezbollah being inside their homes, and without any Hezbollah weapons being stored, and also that civilians are being hit on the road time and time again, when they're traveling in cars which are clearly marked with white flags. On a daily, basis Israel is hitting ambulances, they're hitting humanitarian convoys, they're hitting UN bases multiple times a day. Sometimes 30 separate attacks on UN observer posts are being documented in a single day.
So, the problem is that Israel simply is not taking the kind of precautions they need to take. Yes, Hezbollah is a difficult enemy to fight. It's a guerrilla enemy. It's not an enemy with tanks and armored cars, which are easy to hit. But Israel has the obligation to take the precautions required under the laws of war. And I’ve been in Iraq and Afghanistan and Kosovo and Chechnya and many other places, and I have seen these distinctions being made by armies. And so, what we are seeing in Lebanon is very different from what we see in these other conflicts.
AMY GOODMAN: Peter Bouckaert, Human Rights Watch has also reported on cluster bombs, the Israeli military use of that. Can you elaborate?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Yes. My research team in Northern Israel has been able to photograph cluster bombs in the possession of the artillery teams firing into Lebanon. And we have also been able to document their use on the ground inside Lebanon.
Cluster bombs are very dangerous weapons. Basically what happens is that an artillery shell is fired, it opens up over its target and drops these small bomblets over a very wide area, which are supposed to explode on impact. They create a virtual minefield, exploding minefield, when they drop. Now, what we find is that it's an indiscriminate weapon, which is extremely dangerous to use against a civilian-populated area. And we documented in the village of Blida a cluster bomb attack which killed an elderly woman and wounded an entire family of twelve, including seven children. The husband of that family lost both of his legs in the attack.
But the problem also with cluster bombs, in addition to them being an indiscriminate weapon, is that many of them fail to explode. As much as 14% of cluster bombs’ bomblets, those small bomblets, fail to explode. And so, they leave behind a legacy of death and destruction and maiming after this conflict is over. And it's not just a theoretical legacy. In Kosovo and Iraq, we found that children pick these things up, because they're curious, and farmers step on them when they're out working their fields.
Israel absolutely should not be using cluster bombs in this conflict. And it's an entirely inappropriate weapon against a guerrilla force, anyway, from a military perspective, because cluster bombs are designed to be used against dense concentrations of military troops. You drop cluster bombs on them to kill them. They are anti-personnel weapons. They should not be used against a widely dispersed enemy like Hezbollah, which isn't concentrated in any place.
AMY GOODMAN: Peter Bouckaert, after Human Rights Watch came out with its report on Israel's use of cluster bombs, they admitted in fact they are using cluster bombs, but they said they're using them legally. What does that mean?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Well, they also issued one of the most bizarre statements I’ve ever heard of. One Israeli official said they're using cluster bombs, yes, but they're not using them against populated areas and they're also not using them against Hezbollah. So I’m not quite sure what he was trying to say they're using them against. We don't think cluster bombs can be used within laws of war in populated areas. It's simply too dangerous a weapon. It's too indiscriminate a weapon. And all countries should refrain from using cluster bombs in populated areas. And we're talking about our experience in Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan, where we documented horrendous death tolls and the horrendous injuries, because cluster bombs were used in urban areas, especially by the U.S. and U.K. government in Iraq, where they’ve used them widely in populated areas.
AMY GOODMAN: Are there any reports of the use of phosphorus as a weapon?
PETER BOUCKAERT: There are many reports of the use of phosphorus, and we know that the Israelis have phosphorus in their military -- along with their artillery team. Now, the issue with phosphorus is different, because there are legitimate uses of phosphorus as a weapon --not as a weapon, as an illumination tool. But the problem occurs when phosphorus is used as an offensive weapon, because it causes horrific burn wounds, which can be very disfiguring to civilians. There have been reports that Israel has fired on vehicles and at homes with phosphorus weapons. We're still investigating those, and we do take them serious, because in Fallujah the U.S. Marines did use phosphorus as an offensive weapon, after first denying they did, and it was a very serious violation of the laws of war.
AMY GOODMAN: Peter Bouckaert, I wanted to ask you about another weapon. There are reports of the U.S. sending Israel bunker buster bombs, GBU-28 guided bomb unit bombs, and that they're depleted uranium. Do you know about this?
PETER BOUCKAERT: Yes. We have seen those reports. And those shipments are already going through to Israel. There's a controversy between the United States and England about the use of English bases to transfer weapons to Israel, without seeking permission from English authorities. And we think it's very disturbing that at this moment the U.S. is still sending weapons to Israel, when there is such widespread evidence of their misuse by the Israeli authorities.
Yes, these are smart munitions. And in the ideal world, it's good to use smart munitions, because you end up hitting the targets you want to hit. But the evidence on the ground clearly establishes that Israel is misusing these weapons, that they’re firing them indiscriminately at civilian targets. So we believe it's important that countries put some limits on the way their weapons are used and stop weapons shipments if weapons are used in violation of the Geneva Conventions.
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Isreali propaganda is truth, why then, If Isreal knows that Hezbollah is forcing innocent lebanese to stay in thier villages against thier will, for the SOLE purpose of making Isreal look bad by placing innocent women and children in the paths of oncoming Isreali fire, thus inflicting more casualties than the gentlemanly Isreali army would like. Why is Isreal enabling the Hezbollah propaganda machine in this manner?
If you KNOW hezbollah is purposely TRYING to have lebanese women and children brutally and painfully slaughtered by Isreali weapons, whyever would Israel oblige them? Why would the better, larger, stonger and more well equipped army play RIGHT into the hands of this "terrorist" enemy, by making thier "propaganda" look like truth?
That is just one of the MANY questions I have of those who wish to justify this.
WHERE is the RIGHTEOUSNESS of the Lebanese GOVERNMENT allowing HEZBOLLA to build up weapons WITHIN their borders to FIRE on their neighbor ISRAEL ??? Lebanon bears 100% RESPONSIBILITY for ALLOWING this terrorist group to THRIVE within their borders !!!
Wrong, ultimately, Hezbollah bears full responsibility for all those it killed, And that is as it should be. They deserve to be punished for thier actions. Thier neighbor children do not. Isreal too must carry the full wieght of responsibility for every one of it's victims. Hezbollah did not kill hundreds of lebanese civilians in the last 24 days, Isreal did. Isreal did NOT make every effort it could to minimize innocent casulaities and the world will always know this. As will Isreal. The burden of guilt will bacome apparent when you see the hatred in the eyes of those who survived, the incredulity and doubt, and fear in the expression of those like me, whom Isreal could count as your supporter only a month ago.
Ultimately ,Hezbollah did not drop those bombs on Lebanon, Isreal did.
The Jerusalem Post says Qana may have been totally staged.
It is also a story about bloggers.
Bloggers get results
Hizbollah's policy is genocide of the Jews.
Nice people the Lebanese have in their government.
I know. Like all good Germans you are against genocide. The fact that there are genociders in your government acting as best they can on that policy should just be ignored. Not your fault.
Well WW2 wasn't the fault of good Germans. They got bombed anyway. Perhaps you will be choosier on who you let in your government next time.
Democratically elected genociders? That makes all the difference in the world.
Dear M. Simon--
Israel's policy is genocide of the Lebanese.
Nice people the Israelis have in their government.
I know. Like all good Israelis you are against genocide. The fact that there are genociders in your government acting as best they can on that policy should just be ignored. Not your fault.
Well the invasion of Palestine wasn't the fault of good Israelis. They got attacked anyway. Perhaps you will be choosier on who you let in your government next time.
Democratically elected genociders? That makes all the difference in the world.
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