Wednesday, March 22, 2006

Death to the Infidel

  "I know I've read it here somewhere..."

Yeah. Thou shall kill the convert infidel. The harmless, turn-your-left-cheek christian infidel whose God-given right is to pray to whichever God he chooses. And while at it, why not kill his family and friends for safekeeping his secret no less than 16 years and conspiring with him to the desecration and rejection of Islam. If this isn't reason enough for them to die a vile and disgraceful death, then I don't know what is...

Seriously now. It oughta be clear to all that no religion, and I mean none, advocates the killing of innocent people on grounds of their believes, or the lack thereof. Islam does not kill. Muslims who are emprisoned by their fears, their self-perpetuating, self-victimizing ideologies, and a distorted understanding of their religion, do.

But if Islam does not advocate killing, what does it say then?

Well, here's some of it.

"Religion is a blessing not a burden"

"There is no coercion in Religion"

"A muslim is he whose hand and tongue will subject no one to harm"

"If your Lord had wished it, he would have made us all one people with one belief"

Yes, that's what it says. And yes he would have made us all one, but he hasn't, and we're all different for that. Yet many ill-advised souls still refuse to accept and understand.

Until, if someday, they do, more innocent people will persih by the sword for all that which is blatantly, tragically, chokingly human, and is still ironically seen as divine.


Blogger Ghassan said...

There is no god. did you get the memo?

9:19 PM  
Blogger Mirvat said...


9:21 PM  
Blogger Fouad said...


A couple of things.
First, you guys must have a chip connecting blogger to your cortex.
Second, whether there is a god or not is irrelevant...what memo?

9:29 PM  
Blogger Ghassan said...

I thought it might be relevant. Didn't want to sound impertinent to your theological assessment.
So you didn't get the memo? That there is no god?

9:49 PM  
Blogger Mirvat said...

I got it! the memo.

9:50 PM  
Blogger Fouad said...

:) the memooooooooooooo... there was a memo?

the reason why it isn't really relevant is that there are religions regardless. The presence of God is a philosophical and ideological quest, but the presence of religions isn't it. And you clearly cannot reform religious extremism through atheism. You have to fight it with its own weapons. That's all.

10:10 PM  
Blogger Ghassan said...

fanaticism sprouts from cultural identities, which happens to be sometime religious. but the origin is not religion per se. this is why people from the same faith still massacre each other. they do it when their identity is at risk mainly.
to deal with the problems you are alluding to is best addressed by reconciling cultural differences; religion becomes secondary in the formula.

10:28 PM  
Blogger Mirvat said...

that's very accurate fouad. it's not about theologies, it's the politics of religion. not even in a worldly sense but the internal control in islamic countries that needs to be based on very strict and terrorizing punishments. a religious dictatorship. your post reflects an accurate situation as well. it just asks questions that we already know the answer to and that we already are sick to explain and defend to others (as muslims, i mean). your points are all true but so sad to face.

10:30 PM  
Blogger Mirvat said...

gus, this is not true.
the islamic fanatic extremists (like a lot of catholic counterparts in white america) are politically driven and brain washed. this sort of brutality is not about a difference in cultural background.

10:34 PM  
Blogger Ghassan said...

So yes. I believe that having religion or not is irrelevant, but also preaching the 'believers' that islam or christianity commands you to love one another is most irrelevant, because they are not hating each other because of 'religious' differences but because of cultural and ethnical ones.

10:34 PM  
Blogger Ghassan said...

it surely is about differences in culture, race, socio-economical status, and of course religion.

10:37 PM  
Blogger Fouad said...

People massacre each other for all sorts of reason Ghassan, and what you said is true excpet I can use the same reasoning for people with a similar if not identical cultural background who decimate each other based on religious considerations. Religion is sometimes secondary to cultural differences and sometimes it comes first. Every case stands in its own right and should be dealt with as such.

10:37 PM  
Blogger Ghassan said...

And this is why you don't only see fanaticism in religious dictatorships, but also in atheism regime, based on ethnicity.

10:41 PM  
Blogger Ghassan said...

I think Amin Maalouf describes this nicely in Les identites Meurtrieres. How fanaticism develops.

10:46 PM  
Blogger Fouad said...

Again, the quest for power is what drives certain groups, no matter what their common denominator is, to decimate others. All I'm saying is that it would be inaccurate to ascribe all acts of violence to cultural disparities. Religion is often at the heart of the disparity and the killings, and to indiscriminately relegate it to accessory to murder status, I think, is wrong.

10:48 PM  
Blogger Fouad said...

Mirvat, you break my heart. Are you saying that my artistic and literary efforts were all in vain?? :(

10:52 PM  
Blogger Ghassan said...

what I am saying is that, yes religion is definitely part of the persons identity. in addition to it though there are other factors. but at the end of the day identity drives the murder, and never religion alone. so addressing religion separately from the other components of the identity is wrong. do you see what I'm getting at?

10:53 PM  
Blogger Mirvat said...

but you are rephrasing the point from his post gus. it is not religion that drives hate, it is the fanatic application of it. forget about lebanon as an example, this identity is in islamic driven regimes politically-driven and blind religion (this is the identity as you want to put it)

11:00 PM  
Blogger Fouad said...

sure ghassan I do. I never said religion was the only element that needed to be addressed. But when a poor afghani's conversion to christinaity is punishable by death, then, you know, it looks and walks and quacks like a duck. I won't go reconciliating cultural differences between the east and the west to save this man's life now will I.

11:02 PM  
Blogger Ghassan said...

Actually yes I think reconciling cultural differences will do. And preaching that islam doesn't say kill the poor guy will not.
and this is exactly my point.

11:19 PM  
Blogger Ghassan said...

"Are you saying that my artistic and literary efforts were all in vain??"
megalomaniac a little bit. are we not?

11:37 PM  
Blogger Mirvat said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11:38 PM  
Blogger Fouad said...

I beg your pardon ghassan?

11:49 PM  
Blogger Ghassan said...

No, because I thought your artistic and literary efforts were not noticed by her?
I hate to pry and will leave it at that.

11:58 PM  
Blogger Fouad said...

I think you missed a link. Not that I should even be justifying what I said (!), but you seem to be worth the trouble (hey another megalomaniac statement :). Mirvat said "it just asks questions that we already know the answer to and that we already are sick to explain and defend to others", which prompted my so-called megalomaniac response. I don't even know you people and there's nothing to pry into Ghassan, you know. At least not that I'm aware of.

12:10 AM  
Blogger Mirvat said...

Fouad, we were just messing around. we still do appreciate your artistic efforts and originality. this was stimulating actually.
good night guys.

12:20 AM  
Blogger Ghassan said...

yeah man we're just jokin.
nice chat. thanks for having us.

12:25 AM  
Blogger Fouad said...

Very well then :) I guess the joke didn't get across the ether as smoothly as it should have. My bad Gus. I too appreciate your creativity and originality. Both of you. Nice chat indeed. Good night.

12:33 AM  
Blogger Kathleen Callon said...

Most religions have fanatics, even though most religious/spiritual people are good. Luckily, many good Muslims appear to be attempting to help this man. I hope they succeed.

11:09 AM  
Blogger Ramzi said...

Just to bring the count to 30, I had odd numbers.

6:47 AM  
Blogger Ali said...

I like your post - Muslims are strong in their faith. Those that are insecure, obstruct the truth that is Islam.

8:10 AM  
Blogger Fouad said...

ah ghiyas, thank you but I think you just made ramzi cringe...

There you go ramzi. 32 it is :)

8:31 AM  
Blogger Mirvat said...

i'd like, for once, to hear someone relating the american politics (at least that of the present administration) to religion as well. why don't we criticize the fanatics in both parties. 'axis of evil'..this was not against islam. and it's never labeled terrorism and small minded when it's organized crime. same with huzballa and the palestinian resistance considered terrorism but israel's insults are not. suicide bombers are terrorists. the massacre in kana (which nobody has heard of) is not!

10:17 AM  
Blogger Mar said...

They won't even define the term "Terrorism" here anymore. It hits home if they do.

1:49 PM  
Blogger Kathleen Callon said...

All the holy books talk about "the great nations". I wish people would spend less time hating and more time respecting, especially if they say they are motivated by God.

11:17 AM  
Blogger Zee said...

Islam is the religion of war. Face it! Oh, you do not have to accept it from me. Please take it from the "horses mouth" and read the Qur'an, study the scriptures! There is a fairly good translation by N.J. Dawood (Penguin books) and if you prefer to read translations written in pseudo "King-James-Bible- English" read Abbduhlah Yusuf Ali - or Mohammed Pickthall's translations.
Look, Muhammad taught his followers that there is nothing better (or holier) than jihad warfare and he told his men to offer non-Muslims only three choices: conversion, subjugation (law of Dhimma) - or death.
That's Islam for you in a nutshell.
Any objections?

9:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

zee, It is obvious that you have done a lot of reading and research. What I can't understand is how people like you do all this reasearch and put all this effort into something and yet fail to understand or believe anything other than what they decided to believe before they even started researching the topic. It is obvious that this is what you wanted to believe in and hence your directed research to find your justification.

12:10 AM  

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